The Saga of the Church Hopper
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, June 25, 2007
- Viewed 171
- (73) comments so far
I’ll start:
Some people are fickle. Some leave over the silliest things. Some like to stir up controversy. Some people can’t get along. And some can’t get past their own preferences—they leave on a dime when something doesn’t go their way.
I think an interesting study would be to see how many repeat offenders there are in this group. How many church-hoppers change every five years? I’ve known a slew of them in my past. And how does this same group of people keep getting ticked off every five years or so?
I almost think that the church is divided into two groups...the “hoppers” and the “lifers.” (The lifers would never leave a church, even if there were a good reason.)
What do you think? I’d love to hear your comments from your experience… Please leave them below.
Have a great week!
A U.S. Congregational Life Survey uncovered interesting statistics about new attendees and church-switchers when it looked at U.S. religious practices... 1) One in four church attendees has switched churches in the past five years. 2) On average, just 7 percent of new attendees are formally unchurched. So...I'm wondering what you think...why is this the case?
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Rev. K. A. on Thu, June 28, 2007
Interesting topic…
I agree with John Morris…
First let me give you a little background about myself. Having been Muslim for most of my life I converted to Christianity. I understand there’s a difference between the two religions, but because we know the true light, we are called to live Christian piety. To my surprise this wasn’t the case at the first church I attended. This church had a everybody for themselves and Christ for us all mentality. Everbody was competing to be recognized by man and nobody was living for Christ. This was a church that had good gospel music, good preaching; they knew how to put on a show. This church had little or no concern for the spiritual guidlines we are to follow. Leaders were selected based upon their secular talents (not according to 1 Timothy or Titus), the pastor didn’t have a vision for the church (let alone misleading the people with his double lifestyle) the deacons abused their office and hearld over the people, and the church had no reverance for God’s Word. (A worldly church)
I finanly left that church and searched for a church where the reverance for God’s Word was both preached and practiced.
These are some reasons why I believe people church hop”
1. No Vision….“where there is no vision the people perish”
2. Doctrinal beliefs…“Be ye of one mind”
3. Leaders with worldly spirits…(leaders partying more than the world)
4. Not growing…“We are to grow spiritual and externaly”
5. Leaders incapability to make disciples…“It’s one thing to have memebers and another thing to have disciples…” We are called to make disciples.
6. Powerless leaders…
7. No moral standards…
8. Many churches are dying churches (no youth, no witness, no spark)
many look to the pastor for leadership, for strength, for direction. And if the pastor is out of sync with God, he’s not capable of providing that nourishment needed. The people tend to take on the spirit of their pastor and that’s why its important to be in a place where you could take on the right spirit.
There’s too much at stake to be a lifer at a church where there’s no growth.
Dave Greene on Thu, June 28, 2007
Well said, K.A. Doesn’t the Bible say something about shaking the dust off of our feet and moving to the next town? Sadly, there are many churches that will still have many people in them after God has taken his children out of this world.
Dave
lab rat on Thu, June 28, 2007
wow - so many perspectives on church-hoppers…
first, i’d say that we’d do well to beware of labeling people with this behavior as “church-wreckers” as though people in transition or even lost sheep must be wolves. sometimes the church’s shortcomings lead to mass exodus, and sometimes the church changing leads to it, and the transitions are not always “wrong” or unhealthy.
second, i loved the perspective of Vicki the lifer who sees a few reasons for potentially leaving, but has not taken that way out.
third, in our society, employers are not a loyal as a couple decades or generations ago, and change is a way of life. we live in such a mobile society that the concept of life-long Christian community is not really feasible or part of our culture.
fourth, i would be reluctant to say that those who seek change are avoiding commitment or avoiding going deeper. while this conclusion may be true for some who leave, others may find they are no longer growing in a church context. in deeper self-reflection, they find they need more. perhaps at one church the emphasis is evangelism, and they learn about the value of evangelism. Then they they get to a new place in their lives (perhaps their friends in that fellowship have moved away), and they sense God calling them somewhere else, perhaps to learn deeply about prayer or Christian counseling, healing, etc. Some may find it rounds them out to move every 5 or 10 years. indeed, some denominations require pastors to move every so often for the sake of a church’s health - to get fresh perspective and new vision in place. God does move people - it’s not always sin or shortcoming. in my 20s, i was part of a particular movement. we used to joke that once someone turned 40, they had to leave - that this was a place for 20- and 30-somethings. this migration often happened, and while we missed those who left, it didn’t seem necessarily unhealthy. On the one hand, it would be healing for many people to stay with one group for a long time because IDEALLY the people could know each other deeply and recognize blind spots in the context of committed love and care. still, the truth is that sometimes a person makes one slip-up and some groups will not forgive and move on. who is to blame? each case is different, and it’s better not to play the blame game. SO from the hundreds of cases i’ve seen, getting to know new people, cross-pollinating, has the potential to show us new blind spots and perhaps help people grow more. lots to think about .... no one easy answer seems to fit.
lab rat on Thu, June 28, 2007
wow - so many perspectives on church-hoppers…
first, we’d do well to beware of labeling people with this behavior as “church-wreckers” as though people in transition or even lost sheep must be wolves. sometimes the church’s shortcomings lead to mass exodus, and sometimes the church changing leads to it, and the transitions are not always “wrong” or unhealthy.
second, i loved the perspective of Vicki the lifer who sees a few reasons for potentially leaving, but has not taken that way out.
third, in our society, employers are not a loyal as a couple decades or generations ago, and change is a way of life. we live in such a mobile society that the concept of life-long Christian community is not really feasible or part of our culture.
fourth, i would be reluctant to say that those who seek change are avoiding commitment or avoiding going deeper. while this conclusion may be true for some who leave, others may find they are no longer growing in a church context. in deeper self-reflection, they find they need more. perhaps at one church the emphasis is evangelism, and they learn about the value of evangelism. Then they they get to a new place in their lives (perhaps their friends in that fellowship have moved away), and they sense God calling them somewhere else, perhaps to learn deeply about prayer or Christian counseling, healing, etc. Some may find it rounds them out to move every 5 or 10 years. indeed, some denominations require pastors to move every so often for the sake of a church’s health - to get fresh perspective and new vision in place. God does move people - it’s not always sin or shortcoming. in my 20s, i was part of a particular movement. we used to joke that once someone turned 40, they had to leave - that this was a place for 20- and 30-somethings. this migration often happened, and while we missed those who left, it didn’t seem necessarily unhealthy. On the one hand, it would be healing for many people to stay with one group for a long time because IDEALLY the people could know each other deeply and recognize blind spots in the context of committed love and care. still, the truth is that sometimes a person makes one slip-up and some groups will not forgive and move on. who is to blame? each case is different, and it’s better not to play the blame game. SO from the hundreds of cases i’ve seen, getting to know new people, cross-pollinating, has the potential to show us new blind spots and perhaps help people grow more. lots to think about .... no one easy answer seems to fit.
Rev. Kareem on Fri, June 29, 2007
There are many reasons a person leaves a congregation but haven’t left the church at large.
Coming from an Islamic background, I find that many Christian leaders fail to lead with dignity, class, and Christian piety. I do understand the vast difference between the two religions, however, we as Christians are held more responsible to how we live because we know the true light.
When I first converted to Christianity I was abused by the first congregation I gave my all to. That congregation had a form of godliness. The gospel music was good, the preaching was great, the builing was modified. But all this was external Christianity. After being called to the ministry, I begun to see the inner workings of many congregations. I come to find that many churches don’t choose leadership based upon Paul’s instructions to Timothy and Titus but rather upon secular talents and positions. I also come to find many leaders haven’t fully given their lives to Christ. The pastor I was under, was involved in fraud, bootlegging, stealing and living a double lifestyle. Sin was overlooked and promoted. Deacons was shacking up, preachers was screwing members, some preachers were homosexuals, the congregation had no mark that seperated it from the world. I held a position but was never taught anything about holiness.
I begun to fast and pray asking for God’s leadership in the whole matter. I was growing, but not in the direction that was godly. And of course God lead me to a ministry where the Word of God was both preached and lived. Where the man of God held his office with dignity. As a result, my family are growing into leaders of the future.
These are the reasons why I church hopped…
1. no standard of morality
2. leadership incapability to make disciples
3. no church vision
4. the Word of God wasn’t preached or lived
5. leadership lacked spiritual power and authority over the devil
6. the church was worldly
7. no doctrianl stabilility
8. no growth spiritualy.
10. no respect for the pastor because the pastor didn’t respect himself
11. no love, (the congrgation was a cold congregation, they didn’t have a heart for anybody)
12. the Holy Spirit didn’t dwell there…
lab rat on Fri, June 29, 2007
perhaps we’d do well to beware of labeling people with this behavior as “church-wreckers” as though people in transition or even lost sheep must be wolves. sometimes the church’s shortcomings lead to mass exodus, and sometimes the church changing leads to it, and the transitions are not always “wrong” or unhealthy. i love the perspective of Vicki the ‘lifer’ who sees a few reasons for potentially leaving, but has not taken that way out. in our society, employers are not as loyal as a couple decades or generations ago, and change is a way of life. we live in such a mobile society that the concept of life-long Christian community is not really feasible or part of our culture.
i would be reluctant to say that those who seek change are avoiding commitment or avoiding going deeper. while this conclusion may be true for some who leave, others may find they are no longer growing. in deep self-reflection, they find they need more. perhaps at one church the emphasis is evangelism, and they learn about the value of evangelism. they get to a new place in their lives (perhaps their friends in that fellowship have moved away) and sense God calling them somewhere else, perhaps to learn deeply about prayer or Christian counseling, healing, etc. some may find it rounds them out to move every 5 or 10 years. some denominations require pastors to move every so often for the sake of a church’s health - to get fresh perspective and new vision in place. God does move people - it’s not always sin or shortcoming. in my 20s, i was part of a particular movement. we used to joke that once someone turned 40 yrs old, they had to leave. while we missed those who left, it didn’t seem necessarily unhealthy. it would be healing for many people to stay with one group for a long time because IDEALLY the people could know each other deeply and recognize blind spots in the context of committed love and care. still, the truth is that sometimes a person makes one slip-up and some groups will not forgive and move on. who is to blame? each case is different, and it’s better not to play the blame game. from the hundreds of cases i’ve seen, getting to know new people, cross-pollinating, has the potential to show us new blind spots and perhaps help people grow more…. no one easy answer seems to fit.
lab rat on Fri, June 29, 2007
people in transition or even lost sheep are not wolves. sometimes a church’s shortcomings or major change lead to mass exodus, and the transitions are not always “wrong” or unhealthy. in our society, employers are not as loyal as a couple decades or generations ago, and change is a way of life. we live in such a mobile society that the concept of life-long Christian community is not really feasible or part of our culture. some may even leave because they find they are no longer growing. they hear God calling them to be stretched and move to grow. perhaps at one church the emphasis is evangelism, and they learn about the value of evangelism. they get to a new place in their lives (friends in that fellowship may also have moved away) and sense God calling them somewhere else, perhaps to learn deeply about prayer or Christian counseling, healing, etc. Some may find it rounds them out to move every 5 or 10 years. God may be teaching new things in various seasons. some denominations require pastors to move every so often for the sake of a church’s health - to import fresh perspective and new vision. So God does move people - it’s not always sin or shortcoming. IDEALLY people could come to know each other deeply and recognize blind spots in the context of committed love and care. still, sometimes a person makes one slip-up and some groups will not forgive and move on. who is to blame? each case is different, and it’s better not to play the blame game. from the hundreds of cases i’ve seen, getting to know new people, cross-pollinating, has the potential to help people grow more…. no one easy answer seems to fit.
lab rat on Fri, June 29, 2007
speaking as a pastor, sometimes a church’s shortcomings or major change lead to mass exodus, and the transitions are not always “wrong” or unhealthy. in our society, employers are not as loyal as a couple decades or generations ago, and change is a way of life. we live in such a mobile society that the concept of life-long Christian community is not really feasible or part of our culture. some may even leave because they find they are no longer growing. they hear God calling them to be stretched and move to grow. perhaps at one church the emphasis is evangelism, and they learn about the value of evangelism. they get to a new place in their lives (friends in that fellowship may also have moved away) and sense God calling them somewhere else, perhaps to learn deeply about prayer or Christian counseling, healing, etc. Some may find it rounds them out to move every 5 or 10 years. God may be teaching new things in various seasons. some denominations require pastors to move every so often for the sake of a church’s health - to import fresh perspective and new vision. So God does move people - it’s not always sin or shortcoming. ideally people could come to know each other deeply and recognize blind spots in the context of committed love and care. still, sometimes a person makes one slip-up and some groups will not forgive and move on. who is to blame? each case is different, and it’s better not to play the blame game. from the hundreds of cases i’ve seen, cross-pollinating has the potential to help people grow more…. no one easy answer seems to fit.
Smatha on Sun, July 01, 2007
Church hopping =Personal experience in last 28 years is that we’ve stayed until there was some movement into what we came to call “teaching tangents” or legalistic add ons to biblical authority. The other reason to leave was joining by mistake a more liberal congregation in the hopes that we could influence them toward our views. It was a nice group of folks and we tried to serve but it just became too much fish out of water when we found ourselves defending the bible in Sunday School classes.
Just me on Mon, July 02, 2007
Amen, Tim Gessner. We also have left three churches. The last two we helped to found and were there for ten years until a pastor came and wanted the power. He selected a few people to do his bidding and began to undermine the former leadership. One examples: We fought for a new S.S. class for three months because we were tired of hearing his “war stories.” He didn’t want any other adult classes. You should have heard the outcries. It was all about him, not Jesus. No one would believe the antics he incorporated. To date…he’s changed everything but the name…he changed the building, the time, the seating, the constitution, the time, the officers and incorporated a policy that no one could lead a child to Christ under the age of 12 without the parents present. Needless to say 1/2 his church left as he turned long time friends against one another. It isn’t always the laity that causes the trouble. Slap a collar on someone and a degree behind their desk (even if it came from a diploma mill) and everyone is afraid to stand up to them.
Dave Greene on Mon, July 02, 2007
Maybe as pastors we need to ask a different question. Instead of asking why so many church hop maybe we should ask why any stay. More specifically, maybe we should each ask why someone would place themself under my leadership. I submit to you that if someone stays, it will be because they believe we are real followers of Christ and that we actually have something to teach them that will enable them to be better followers of Christ. Sheep want a shepherd who cares - one whose voice they recognize (they have a relationship) - maybe even on who will leave the 99 in the sheep pen and go and find that one lost sheep. I say, let’s concentrate on be a good shepherd and see if fewer sheep hop into the next pen.
Dave
Rev. Perry Leon Shelton, M.Ed on Tue, July 03, 2007
I think the real question isn’t being asked. The real question is what are we the church the true body of Christ going to do about it. Leadership in the post Christian church has gone South into sin. Hardly a one is able to think for themselves from a biblical perspective. If you talk about being a New Testament Church, most think you are weird and out of touch. How could the bible be out of touch? Aren’t you tired of biblically unqualified leadership(ie, Women Pastors, Gay clergy, unmarried elders). Aren’t you tired of bad communion services (thimble and wafers), Multi-millionaire Tele-stars, Show game children services, Rock and Roll youth ministries, etc. etc. etc. Why don’t we the true church, the true disciples of Christ stop supporting them and meet with like minded believers in true worship, in Spirit and in truth. I challenge anyone who thinks otherwise to a debate. Write me at [removed]
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[removed] if you think I am wrong. Show me in scripture how you can support such things.In Christ Jesus our Lord
Perry Leon Shelton.
Rick Wilburn...Student Minister on Sat, July 07, 2007
I agreee! Sadly, many churches think if there is having a bunch of people join, that they are experiencing real church growth. I have been in the ministry for over 17 yr. I believe “true church growth, should be classified, as “kingdom growth”. And by that I mean, when someone comes forward to make a PPOF ( public profession of faith) , and that person is baptizied, and goes thru some type of discipship training and connects to a small group,...then we can truly say, we have seen real kingdom growth. And if I am not mistaken, we are commanded to make disciples, right? Not trying to be a hard nose or anything, but, if the business of the local church is to win souls and see them discipled, if that is the main, thing we do, along with of course worship, fellowship, mission work,then how is business in your church?
How many Bible studies, sermons, revivals, retreats, discipleship events and how much $ does it take to see one soul lead to faith in Christ, much less discipled by one church member? Do the math. It is not looking good for the home team, that’s for sure.
God is faithful and I am no one to be talking! It has been a yr. since I last got to lead someone to the Lord. I have shared my faith, but no fruit yet!
Rick Wilburn
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