Two New Church Campuses This Weekend: 2,700 People
- Posted by: Todd
- Posted on: Mon, July 14, 2008
- Viewed 73
- (19) comments so far
You can read more about Mars Hill’s new campus, as well as an interview with their campus pastor here.
And here’s more on NewSpring’s new campus (be sure to watch the video); along with Perry’s thoughts from yesterday...
Great job guys!
Both NewSpring and Mars Hill Seattle added new campuses this last weekend. Mars Hill's new Bellevue campus had over 1,000 people in attendance. New Spring's Greenville campus hosted over 1,700 people. According to Perry Noble, they were hoping for around a 1,000 their first week. And most surprising was that their Anderson campus was also UP in attendance for the weekend. Great job to both Perry and Mark Driscoll and their teams for a great weekend and starts of new works that will no doubt influence many people and bring many new converts to the body of Christ over the next years in their communities...
Comments
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Heather on Mon, July 14, 2008
I am so happy for those guys. The whole campus thing is equally challenging and rewarding. I’m typing from Lima,Peru, where we had 300 in attendance at our FRC-Lima campus here this wknd. Grateful!
jud on Wed, July 16, 2008
Would you send your kids to a school where the teacher was not physically present?
Would you send a loved one to a hospital operating room with a surgeon who was doing the operation from a remote location?
Had you a large flock of sheep that needed caring for, what if you found that the shepherd you put in charge decided to get ANOTHER flock of sheep but only send his image and his voice to lead them?
I rest my case.
Todd Rhoades on Wed, July 16, 2008
Hey jud,
Answer to #1… many people do this everyday… it’s called distance learning.
Answer to #2… No, that’s just silly.
Answer to #3… You’re, unfortunately, ignorant as to how this whole multi-site thing works.
You can rest your case if you like, but I think you haven’t made one yet. I find for the defendant. Sorry.
Todd
jud on Wed, July 16, 2008
Todd, I’m not going to suggest that this is the case in every satellite church situation but the few I have seen up close it is CLASSIC “cult of personality”.
It should be the job of the pastor to EQUIP others for ministry and send them out. What we see more and more is evangelists who have assumed the role of teaching pastor… they are out of position to begin with… it doesn’t even begin to cross these guys mind to mentor and train those in their flock to send out! No, instead there is the obsession with personal influence and territorial expansion… thus the satellite campus.
Church planting in the first place, if it is NOT a young pastor being SENT OUT and supported by another fellowship/ mature pastor/ wise counsel of elders is RISKY business for the Body of Christ. I’ve seen it up close and personal on numerous occasions.
The absolute joke is that nowadays church planting is almost always done in the name of EVANGELISM. THE CHURCH is the fellowship of the Believers not the slick production that targets people seeking a form of godliness.
Leonard Lee on Wed, July 16, 2008
Jud, you make broad accusations about what you have seen but the accusations you make as well as your first post show so little understanding of what church planting is as well as satellite campuses are it is ridiculous. The churches function is to reach the world and reveal the mystery of God for the glory of God. Didn’t Paul plant churches in the name of evangelism? Didn’t the Antioch church send Paul and Barnabas to plant churches in the name of evangelism?
Tell us how you got first hand knowledge of what is in the heart of these “pastors” you say are into cult personality and obsessed with personal influence. Tell us how you got so wise in church planting. What experience do you have exactly? How many have you started? How many have you pastored. How many were you on staff at or even a part of. Just how up close and personal did you get?
Your generic experience along with specific accusations holds no weight. Give with the details of your experience.
jud on Wed, July 16, 2008
Leonard, I very clearly stated in my above post that this doesn’t describe EVERY church plant or satellite.
The Church I see in the Bible is the fellowship of BELIEVERS for worship and equipping for all good works.
I am not a pastor, nor an evangelist I am a Christian. I don’t turn a blind eye to the apostasy that riddles the American Church. The Bible is explicit in stating that unregenerate man seeks a FORM of godliness and I have witnessed that many churches are doing all they can to accomodate this from a very close vantage point on numerous occasions.
To be sure, this is not every church plant or church planter but it is a SIGNIFICANT percentage.
Leonard on Wed, July 16, 2008
Jud, you paint specifics with a broad brush. A significant percentage? What would that be? How did you measure this? Where did you become an expert on the hearts of those that attend a church plant? You make a connection between church planting and a verse from Timothy, you must have some data to come up with such blanket conclusions.
As for the church, you did not answer my questions about Paul or the Antioch church. You did not address how Christianity got spread all over the world. The church is made up of believers in Christ but its mission is to make disciples.
You also did not answer how up close. The way you are describing church plants and satellites, you are not convincing that you have even been in the same state. Slinging opinions about satellites and church plants that you either are unable or unwilling to back up is not wise.
Leonard on Wed, July 16, 2008
Let me add Jud, I am around church planters all the time. I have planted 2 churches. I meet with over a dozen a couple times a month. I am in contact with hundreds through out the year. I was on staff that has launched 10 in the past couple years. I am in contact regularly with the men who have launched video services, some of whom I would call friends. I know of know one in my circles these past 12 years of planting, these last 28 of ministry that are like what you describe. NONE.
deaubry on Thu, July 17, 2008
i think when paul planted a church, he would put ministers in them that was well equiped to do the works of god , i believe it was a personal thing with each believer if need be. but why go satellite when he could put a person of god in the church to minister unless he has no one that he thinks capable of doing the job but him. i know these are modern times, but gods word does not change with the times, only people change ,
Todd Rhoades on Thu, July 17, 2008
Deaubry,
Great. We agree. That’s EXACTLY how today’s multi-site churches are doing it! What makes you think that the ‘teaching pastor’ (a title, I might add, was never in the Bible) HAS to be on-site? Modern multi-sites will agree with you that leadership for different campuses is ESSENTIAL. Many times people think that since the teaching pastor is not on-site, that there is no leadership locally. Plugging a DVD into a projector does not a multi-site church make. It is depended on great local leadership… a person (or people) who pastor and lead the people, even if their not the main communicator.
Don’t see how you think anyone is ‘changing God’s word’.
Todd
Leonard on Thu, July 17, 2008
There are countless people who are gifted and fantastic leaders and shepherds who are not gifted teachers. Many of these people are now leading Multi-site campuses. Their ability to shepherd and equip and lead is not encumbered by working to present a message each week.
I think it weird, so much distrust for leadership. We always have to say, their compromising, changing the word, have big egos… When do we say they are Spirit Filled, Godly leaders? Do you have to pastor a small church to be one of them? I cried at the fruit of these two churches and am so excited God has gifted people using their gifts to build his kingdom and not some fortune 500 company.
This is a huge day to celebrate the Kingdom of God, There are no biblical standards broken in any way, (the opposite in my opinion) but people still have to fault find.
CS on Thu, July 17, 2008
Todd:
“What makes you think that the ‘teaching pastor’ (a title, I might add, was never in the Bible) HAS to be on-site? Modern multi-sites will agree with you that leadership for different campuses is ESSENTIAL. Many times people think that since the teaching pastor is not on-site, that there is no leadership locally.”
You’re right, this is one of those situations where we do not have a clear, specific guidance in the Bible about what to do with technology that would allow people in different cities, states, or even countries to view a pastor speaking in a different area.
I think that the problem that jud, deaubry, and other people have with the idea of the multi-site idea can be shown in the Greek word for, “pastor,” which is, “poimen”. The word, “pastor,” is only used once as a translation for this word in the New Testament (Ephesians 4:11). The rest of the time, it is referred to as, “shepherd,” or, “herdsman.”
When the word, “shepherd,” is used in the New Testament, it illustrates a closeness and familiarity between the shepherd and the flock. In John 10, Jesus uses this analogy throughout the chapter to show His intimacy with us, in saying things like, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” This is a tight-knit relationship, and the bond is unique.
So, when we have a situation where there is a pastor that is at some distance away from the congregation, when the implications in the Bible are that there is supposed to be a sort of intimacy between the two. The pastor does not even perhaps know who is in his flock, instead passing that along to other leadership (elders & deacons, hopefully). I think this is why many people do not approve of remote locations in this manner.
Make sense?
—
CS
Todd Rhoades on Thu, July 17, 2008
CS,
I would argue that the campus pastor IS ‘THE pastor’ for all practical purposes. He is the one who is shepherding the flock. He is the one who is knows them intimately. The is the one with the tight-knit relationship, and the unique bond.
I guess using the logic that some had… what authority or ‘right’ did Paul have in writing letters to these churches? If the leadership was established and the shepherds were doing their job, what gave Paul the right to stick his head in the mix?
You see, there was teaching… deep doctrinal teaching… going on in the early church; and some of that teaching from from a distance. The only difference… the ONLY difference, is that Paul used the technology of his day (the letter) while today some are using video.
So… what is the difference between Paul writing to a church hundreds of miles away on the subject of God’s love; or Perry Noble doing the exact same thing from 20 miles away using video?
I would argue… not much.
Todd
CS on Thu, July 17, 2008
Todd:
“I guess using the logic that some had… what authority or ‘right’ did Paul have in writing letters to these churches? If the leadership was established and the shepherds were doing their job, what gave Paul the right to stick his head in the mix?”
Great questions. Keep in mind that I was only trying to give some explanations as to why some people may respond to the idea of the multi-site in the way they do. I was trying to stay objectively neutral in the midst. =)
In Paul’s case, he wasn’t just a pastor, but an apostle as well. That came with some duties and abilities that are not typically seen as pastoral care. Could it be possible he was doing things within that role?
Pastors can also teach and send off people to become new pastors to tend to a different flock. And those pastors were welcome to come and go to visit their spiritual homes and see how their disciples are progressing. Which leads to…
“I would argue that the campus pastor IS ‘THE pastor’ for all practical purposes. He is the one who is shepherding the flock. He is the one who is knows them intimately. The is the one with the tight-knit relationship, and the unique bond.”
And I think that that role would meet what we see in the Bible, assuming that they have been developed as pastors as well. I would also hope that they take an equal share in doing the teaching and discipling as well.
—
CS
Todd Rhoades on Thu, July 17, 2008
Thanks, CS…
Interesting you would use the term ‘apostle’.
In reality, the role of Perry Noble or Craig Groeschel as ‘teaching pastors’ in multiple venues really puts them very much in a modern day ‘apostolic’ role, in my opinion.
In reality, it not much different than what denominations have played in some way, shape, or form for many years.
Todd
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