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88% of Evangelical Children Leave the Church After High School

As a parent of four kids the stat in this article really grabbed my attention. What do I have to do as a parent to make sure my kids make the cut. And what is/can my church do to keep 88% of our current youth from abandoning the church?

(AgapePress) - The new president of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) says he is disturbed that many students in both public and private schools—even Christian private schools—are leaving the church once they graduate.

In 2002, the SBC’s Council on Family Life reported that roughly 88 percent of evangelical children are leaving the church shortly after they graduate from high school. Dr. Frank Page, the denomination’s new president, says SBC churches need to counter that statistic by finding ways to make themselves more relatable, more pertinent and significant to students before they graduate.

“We’re seeing a societal trend where a large number of young people are opting out of the church,” Page notes. ”Estimates of 15 to 20 million people now in America have said they are Christians but they simply don’t want to be a part of the church,” he says.

Some blame the church “drop-out rate” among young people after they graduate on the secularist influence of America’s public schools. However, the SBC’s president observes, ”The sad thing is that we’re seeing that number of dropouts from church [among] those who went to public school and private school, and that’s an unfortunate trend.”

Although he admits he has no “hard numbers” to back up his contention that graduates from private Christian schools are leaving the church almost as rapidly as others, Page says he is referencing anecdotal information heard from this year’s Resolutions Committee at the recent SBC meeting in Greensboro, North Carolina. “It is a disturbing trend,” he asserts, “and part of it is that our churches have become one- or two-generation churches, and we’ve failed to learn how to reach out to this younger generation.”

The Southern Baptist leader says churches must find ways to connect with this young adult demographic—Generation X, the bridger generation, or “whatever you want to call it”—and must do a better job of discipling members of this group. A big part of the problem, he contends, “is that our churches simply are not relating to or seeming relevant to these students.”

Even though Christian students are under attack for their beliefs in many public schools today, Page believes those who are firmly grounded in their faith can have a “salt and light” influence on their peers and teachers. Nevertheless, the SBC president says his prayer is that more churches will begin offering Christian schools, both for families who can and for those who cannot afford such education.

So… how do parents and churches partner together to make sure we don’t lose nearly 90% of our next generation of church goers?

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This post has been viewed 8663 times and was added on August 08, 2006 by Todd Rhoades.
Filed under: Engaging Culture  Trends in Today's Church  
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  There are 96 Comments:
  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    Here’s a handful of ideas from a long-time youth worker. I’m very opinionated on this, so forgive me in advance.

    1. Be authentic. Inauthentic Christianity is what turns people off from being part of the church, whether they’re this young or not. Share your struggles with them. These young adults and youth need adults to spend time BEING with them, and being real. Don’t fake it. If you are faking it, work on your own heart first! I have seen some kids I’ve influenced get out of High School with some real faith that I knew came from me being real with them. I didn’t treat them like “kids” either. I was just there.

    2. Get them involved. No, I’m not talking about being involved in “Youth Group”, althought that’s good. Get them in on being the church on a regular basis. They can play on worship bands, be greeters, they can do just about all the things that grown-ups do. I just a couple weeks ago set my “youth band” loose on our regular sunday service, for the first time without my involvement. (I was preaching and didn’t want to play and preach in the same weekend. I normally play with them… I love it, by the way...) They absolutely ROCKED! Real authentic genuine heartfelt enthusiastic worship. I just about cried. The one of them who has been “groomed” to be more of a leader REALLY stepped up to the plate.

    3. Do NOT ghetto-ize them. Enough of the car washes and candy sales and bake sales and such. I know in a lot of churches there’s no line item in the budget for Youth, or not very much. Put your money where your mouth is. They are the young church of TODAY, not the church of tomorrow. There is no church of tomorrow! (There is no promise of tomorrow, build the church today...)

    Okay, now I bet I just ticked someone off. I hope not.

  • Posted by shadowette

    I am fairly passionate about this subject as well.  Speaking from experience, when I graduated High School, my Baptist church didn’t have anything for me.  I asked to teach but was told I was too young.  18 year olds just aren’t responsible enough.  Ok, so that left me with attending a Sunday School class.  My church had a young married class, and a singles class.  I was forced to attend the singles class due to a lack of other resources.  The youngest person in the class, besides me, was 32 years old.  So, I stopped attending, just like all my friends had done. 

    Now, to be fair, this was approximately 10 years ago.  Things have changed in some churches since then, but many churches still have nothing to offer High School graduates.  The church I currently attend has a different approach, and I have seen it working out VERY well.  We allow & encourage kids to serve in addition to attending their classes.  Younger kids are asked to serve with their parents.  When kids reach Jr. High, they are allowed to serve in certain areas of our children’s ministry.  When they turn 16 they can serve anywhere in the church.  We also offer small groups for kids 6 years old and on (6 years through 5th grade meet at church, Jr High to HS meet in homes).  By the time these kids graduate High School, they are already serving as vital members of the church, but also have a small group to keep them accountable for attending. 

    While our system works, it doesn’t work in every case, as with any program.  But it is there for those who choose to use it.

  • Posted by Andy McAdams

    Good thoughts Peter.  I have just one that I’d mention at this time. 

    Stop only doing church the way adults like it.  Even if you have a contemporary worship service, don’t simply assume that you’re touching a younger generation.  Youth leave the church because it doesn’t seem relevant to them.  So…make it relevant to their culture also.  You may actually need to provide a teen service for them.

    During my last pastorate everyone met in the Worship Center and worshipped as families.  Then children were dismissed for Sunday School and teens went to their own worship service.  They continued worship music (their style) and then the Youth Pastor preached on the same subject I was delivering to their parents.... just not as long.  What we found was, families had more to talk about spiritually because teens listened more closely and the teens found that their faith was alive and relevant to where THEY lived life, not just where their parents lived.

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    Andy,

    YES!

    I wish I had though of saying that! We don’t do that here (we don’t have the facility for it) but we do have a real “worship” service for the Youth on Wednesday nights. That’s a GREAT thought!

  • Todd said:
    “What do I have to do as a parent to make sure my kids make the cut. And what is/can my church do to keep 88% of our current youth from abandoning the church? “

    How about pray?  God gives great guidance. 

    Maybe it’s a part of human nature, too, where kids who grow up in Christian homes have to experience some of their own “desert” before appreciating God and “the meaning of life.”

    In the end, remember that salvation is a miracle-- and a work of God, not the flesh.  We should love everyone, and be as concerned about everyone’s faith as much as our own children’s faith.  Our children are entrusted to us to raise, and we are also responsible for reaching the world.  Oh, how we need to love others as much as we love our own kids, or ourselves:

    Mark12
    28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
    29"The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g]There is no commandment greater than these.”
    32"Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
    34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

    ...Bernie

  • Posted by Todd Rhoades

    Was I just rebuked by Bernie for being concerned for my children?

    Of course… pray.  Why didn’t I think of that?!

    And I won’t apologize for being at least as much concerned about my own children’s future as I am for others.

    Thanks, Bernie,

    Todd

  • I think we all need to be rebuked, Todd, because it’s easy to rest on the arm of the flesh… and done way too often… probably more often than not.  We need to do things in the power and spirit of God.  It’s not trivial and not just words.  Even major ministries work in the flesh rather than the spirit; one example is Jim Bakker (PTL Scandal), who wrote about it in his book “I Was Wrong:”

    http://search.half.ebay.com/i-was-wrong_W0QQmZbooks

    ...Bernie

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    Bernie,

    I think your point actually IS good, although I would guess that none of those who have posted on this point would forget to do that. Thanks for reminding us of it. I need that from time to time.

  • Posted by Todd Rhoades

    Bernie,

    Love you man, but you have a one track mind, taking everything back to the evil televangelists and major ministries.

    This is how we’re different, Bernie.  Rather than reading someone’s comments and thinking that they (and everyone else) needs to be rebuked, I would suggest that my comments were to attract positive responses that would help with the problem, rather than just thinking that everyone is automatically operating in the flesh.

    I realize it’s easy to ‘rest on the arm of the flesh’… I just don’t think everyone is there all the time.

    By the way, any kids, Bernie?

    Todd

  • Posted by Kat Miles

    THANK YOU Peter Hamm and Andy McAdams!!!  Well said.  I am so passionate about this subject, I will have to choose my comments carefully because I can’t possibly address all the issues here.  To start with, anyone (especially Sr. Pastors/Lead Pastors) who has not read George Barnah’s “Transforming Children into Spiritual Champions” needs to run to the bookstore...go, go now and read this book, please!  It has changed my heart toward children forever.

    The Lord pointed something out to me regarding the younger generations and the “worship wars” recently.  Let me preface this by saying that I am a worship leader who was raised with classical music and training and who loves most hymns but I am passionate about musical variety and celebration in the church regardless of the style. 

    But my revelation was that if we were truly , truly, TRULY concerned about reaching the lost for Christ we would be willing to sacrifice our Sunday morning service/worship style in order to see this generation saved.  Most churches I’ve grown up and worked in seem to have stopped somewhere just short of Generation X (my generation) when it comes to this issue.  It’s a very simple matter really...we are to die to ourselves.  We have been crucified with Christ...haven’t we?  So come and celebrate Christ even if it’s not your favourite style...you are there to worship by SUPPORTING the younger generations as they realize that God cares about them.  They will see that love and care of Jesus in you as you support them DESPITE your differences in music preference and service style.  I’m not saying we should never have a hymn or that a service should be a rock concert (variety and balance is key) ...but it might seem like a rock concert to a Baby Boomer sometimes.  That’s ok.  To a GenX or GenY or younger it’s an exciting time of worship and celebration that they won’t be completely embarrassed to bring their friends to.  Is the spirit of God there?  Is He working in people’s lives?  If so can you support that?

    I will finish with the question that has been bouncing around in my head all month…
    When is it our turn???

  • Posted by Snoop

    I think that this statistic is a very real indication of the failure of the youth ministry mindset.  I say that knowing full well that my membership in the youth pastor union could very well be revoked for saying that.  It is my feeling that churches rely on youth ministry too much… they rely on youth ministry to do ministry in a way that keeps students happy in church.  The sad truth is that this mindset results in a radical disconnect between what goes on in “big church” and what goes on in the student ministry arena. 
    How so?  How about philosophy of worship?  How many times have you seen youth pastors leading worship by singing hymns? 

    In my former church I was forced to wrestle out a very tricky debate.  Do I design the ministry to be relevant to kids, and attract them to the student ministry of our church knowing full well that when they graduate high school they will be so disoriented by the difference in the culture change between student ministry and the church that they will leave, or do I design the ministry in a way that ties into the culture of the church, but is less than attractive to the students of the area?  Tough question, and there is no good answer to it. 

    The vast majority of youth pastors end up creating a ministry that does not tie into the church… and then students leave that ministry and feel lost.  They are used to a ministry that is relevant to where they are, that uses music that they enjoy, and caters to the learning style that best serves them (i know that i just lost a bunch of people because I said the R word, but lets try to not get into a firefight about relevance, this is more important).  The day after they leave high school they enter into a service where the centerpiece is a lecture that more often than not is dry and offers little life application (generalization, I know) but more importantly is not tailored to connect with them.  I don’t blame them for leaving.

    The church needs reexamine its’ reason for being.  If our purpose is love God and love others, and to make disciples we need to suck it up and realize that it is not neccessarily going to be comfortable for us to do so… Services (which whether you are comfortable admitting it or not) are our “product” and if we are not creating services that our students and young adults find value in, they are going to hit the road.

    There is a fascinating book out now called treasure hunt.  It talks about the “value calculus” that people in this generation are developing.  Businesses are learning that the middle market is starting to dry up, that the only markets that are having success right now are the high-end (think tiffany, and other expensive stuff that is slipping my 30 year old mind right now) and the low-end (think walmart).  The middle market is dieing… I think the church needs to look at this and realize that no one, in this day and age is going to attend the low-end church (meaning poor quality, we always did it this way, will always do it this way type of mindset).  The realization that we need to make is that if this (my) generation is going to embrace the church again we need to do it well, and in such a way that they recognize the value of the church.  They recognize that church is an important part of thier lives, and when they walk out the door on Sunday morning, they will recognize exactly what value that has in their lives, they know why they attended that morning, and they know what they will do with what they just experienced.  If they do not get that, they will make their habit going to starbucks on sunday morning, and read the new york times and drink thier expensive coffee, because they know the value that they are getting from that.

    Just a note:  please spare the relevance is evil discussion, please spare me the need for biblical truth or the entertainment arguements.  The church exists so that people might experience life changing truth, we get away from that, and people will stop coming.  The trick is presenting truth well, in a relevant way.

  • Posted by BeHim

    [So… how do parents and churches partner together to make sure we don’t lose nearly 90% of our next generation of church goers?]

    Churches can partner with parents by arranging a school for the children to attend at the church, during the week.  It’s best done grades k-8 but can work k-12 but at least k-5.

    The majority of church buildings sit unused during the day during the week.  Millions of square feet of space that for the most part is already or can easily be set-up as a teaching space.

    The suggestions here have been about more influence.  Need them around the church, involved, etc.

    We’re losing our children to influence - seriously think about the time they are influenced by Godly Character, compared to ungodly character.  If they sleep 8 hours a day, that leaves 112 hours throughout the week.  Of that, they MAY spend 3 hours on Sunday morning (109) and maybe 3 hours Sunday night (106) and 3 hours on Wednesday (103).  Most of us would readily admit those numbers are stretched at best.

    Let’s say the father in the house is actually obeying God and reading and praying with his children and wife and they do such 1 hour a day (96).

    The total influence of Godly Character is stretched to 16 hours while ungodly character is a whopping 96 hours.

    I hope and pray during those hours they are at school they are with Godly children and listen to Godly music, etc.

    The best way to “partner” with the parents is reverse the trend.  Give the children 96 hours (or at least a minimum of 6 hours a day, 5 days a week 30 hours) of Godly influence by opening up a school in your church.

    As for relevant - what’s more relevant than classes and school?  That IS their life from 3-18yo.

    Do the math for yourself.  Be honest too.  You know how much time you spend reading and praying with your children.  How much TV and radio (and what) they watch and listen to.  What is more difficult to determine is the hours of what, how, with, etc they do in school.

    Salvation is no doubt a gift of God and training our children about Who God IS from the time they are born to the day they live is our Greatest Commission.  We are not all evangelists or pastors or greeters BUT we are all husbands, wives and grand-parents who MUST make a difference in our influencing our children with Godly Character.

    The next generation and every generation after that will be lost without serious consideration of separating our children from the world and keeping them from ungodly influence.  13% of Godly influence (168 total hours in a week – 50 hours or more of sleep multiplied by 13% is the number of hours spent in prayer, reading and church) in their lives or our lives for that matter, equals a desperate situation.

    If those in the public school system start to fail even worse, they are more than welcome to attend the school our children do but with the influence of God and perhaps even, Lord willing, they might be saved too.

  • Posted by Todd Rhoades

    BeHim,

    In the article, it says…

    Although he admits he has no “hard numbers” to back up his contention that graduates from private Christian schools are leaving the church almost as rapidly as others, Page says he is referencing anecdotal information heard from this year’s Resolutions Committee at the recent SBC meeting in Greensboro, North Carolina.

    It seems that this is a big problem in even the Christian school area as well.

    Todd

  • Posted by BeHim

    I counted on you Todd or someone else to pull that out.

    Perhaps it has to do with their theology and doctrine.  Hmmm.

    Also, you’ll find in many private Christian schools they attempt to be more like the public school.  WHY?

    The key is separating from the world, not being like it.

  • Posted by Snoop

    Are you being serious?  I mean… I am trying not to be disrespectful, but I am finding it hard to believe that you are being serious about seperating from the world… I mean the amish do that, and they are having a hard time keeping people in thier communities… why would it work for us?

    What about being salt and light in the world?  How can we do that if we are seperating ourselves?  Why are reacting out of fear, instead of training people to live in the world while being faithful to Jesus and his teachings?  You make it sound like we have no hope unless we hide.  The Jesus that I serve is much better than anything that the world offers… The church just has a bad habit of forgetting that and cowering in fear from the world around us… why do we want to continue this?

  • Posted by Dennie

    What about our call to be salt and light in the world?  If there are no Christian students in our public schools, are we living up to “go into all the world?” We’re going to need all our Christian teachers who currently bring the light to our public schools, to come and teach in our new Christian schools as well.  So we end up abandoning the place where a great number of this generation spend a great deal of their time.  Sounds like we’re saying, “I’ll take care of the kids in my church (school) and not give a rip about reaching the kids in the public school.”

  • Posted by Daniel

    Snoop is on to something, as is (dare I say it?) BeHim.  The primary issue (speaking as a young person) here is that the youth group mentality doesn’t convey an accurate picture of what Christianity is about.  Our youth (and it’s really not their fault, since this is a standard evangelical belief) believes that if they ‘give their heart to Jesus’ by saying a sinner’s prayer or something like that, then they have eternal fire-insurance, regardless of how they live their lives--and that that’s the essnce of Christianity.  Doctrinally, that’s a load of hogwash.  But it goes beyond doctrine to mission.  What is the mission of the Israel of God?  To get more people to say ‘sinner’s prayers’?  No.  It’s about living in the Kingdom (this means knowing what the Kingdom of God is about, and what it’s defining characteristics are) and spreading the good news of the Kingdom (primarily by simply living in it, but also, at times, sharing with others that a Jewish carpenter sits enthroned above all...). 
    When our teenagers believe that they are “saved” by virtue of ‘believing in Jesus’, it makes perfect sense for them to leave church when their parents no longer make them do it, because going to church on sundays is superfluous.  In that sense, we’re reaping what our crappy theology has been sowing.
    As Snoop pointed out, it’s also true that there’s too much of a ‘disconnect’ between big church and little church.  How to bridge that gap...?  That is the question.
    Cheers,
    -Daniel-

  • Posted by Chris

    Kat wrote:
    “They will see that love and care of Jesus in you as you support them DESPITE your differences in music preference and service style. “

    This is a huge point. I don’t know that Kat meant it the way I understood it, but I think it’s worth repeating.

    A lot of times when we talk about reaching our “kids,” we immediately start thinking about changing our music so it sounds like the music they listen to on the radio. We tell the pastor not to wear a suit anymore, because “the kids might not relate to him.”

    Now, before we go any further, you need to know that I’m still technically a “kid” (26) who prefers contemporary (even “edgy” music), and don’t wear a suit when I preach. 

    But we have to lose the accomodation mindset.

    When we change music styles, or “dress code” or do crazy things during our sermons because we hope it will attract the kids, I fear we’re only making the problem worse. It isn’t a music issue, or a dress code issue, or a kids sermon vs. adult sermon issue. (If it were, churches like the Greek Orthodox church wouldn’t be attracting young people in droves).

    People are attracted to a Gospel that changes lives, not to a church that changes music styles. Teenagers want to see adults who are changed by the power of the cross. They want to see authentic worship - however that worship is presented. They want to be a part of a church that lives what it talks about, and talks about what it is supposed to be living. (I often wonder, if this God we serve is so great, why don’t we spend more time telling people what He says?)

    The answer isn’t in a particular worship style, or style of service, or formality vs. informality. The answer is to be a church that is completely 100% sold out being ambassadors for Jesus Christ wherever we are.

  • Posted by revAbi

    Okay, so if this is the case, what do we the Pastors and the churches need to be doing?
    I really don’t see much literature written for this age group or about ministering to or with this age group?

    Or do you know of any?

  • Posted by John 3:36

    It’s been mentioned that we need to be more “authentic” - but I must ask, is God not powerful enough to keep that to whom He has granted eternal life? It would make this entire matter so much clearer, to those with ears to hear and eyes to see, that the problem does not lie within the realm of developing programs to occupy the time of our children (not that they should be discounted or discarded) but rather obedience to God’s plan of salvation and the genuine gospel message of repentance and faith, evidenced by the fruits of repentance and faith, not a simple decision, saying a prayer, answering an altar call, etc…

    God will not, nor can He, reward the deliverer of a bogus gospel message. The evidence of such is clearly dosumented within the premise of this article. Are the #’s accurate, God only knows, but when you have a church that for the most part is unwilling to reconcile itself to God, to be founded on doctrines that reveal the One True and Living God, then it really doesn’t matter how many escapades are developed to try to “maintain” a persons (adult or youth) involvement in churchianity, many will be found on the wide road.
    Does anyone not consider (BeHim excluded) God’s word in matters first? Jesus said, “Enter by the narrow gate. arrow is the gate and difficult is the way, which leads to eternal life and there are few who find it.”
    “Difficult is the way” - doesn’t reflect the predominant gospel message delivered by churches and “Christians” in American Evangelicalism. Unless people endeavor to understand this and reverse this reality, the fallout will be ever increasing and devastating.
    May we all discipline our mouths to be faithful to the word of God in delivering what is the true Holy Spirit empowered gospel message - I doubt anyone would agree that the Holy Spirit empowered gospel message is resulting in this type of abandonment of faithfulness to Godly living.

  • Posted by Snoop

    There is a bunch of stuff that is written for doing ministry to this age group.  The only problem is that it proposes changes in traditional thinking that people get uncomfortable with and label emergent, which causes faces to get red, and neck veins start throbbing. 

    The problem is that there is a transition that needs to take place from the traditional, modern mindset of church, to a postmodern mindset that places high value on relationships, experience, and authenticity.  Many people in the evangelical community fear this as throwing out biblical truth… That is not what is being advocated… changes need to be made while continuing to embrace scriptural truth.

    As to books, I would recomend reading McLaren… It will help you to understand the shift in philosophy that has gone on lately, Dan Kimball’s book is ok, there is a book on its way by Chris Folmsbee at Sonlife about working with students that should be good. 

    The key to this crowd though is not to do what the books say.  The church needs to become students of context, learning what is going on in the specific area in which you work… and ministering to those needs…

  • Hi Todd-

    Yes I have 4 kids: 3, 5, 14, & 15.

    Todd said:
    “Love you man, but you have a one track mind, taking everything back to the evil televangelists and major ministries. “

    You missed my point, I think.  My point is that it is too easy to operate in the flesh rather than the spirit.  I’m afraid that most ministries seem to operate this way, from my experience.  My point is that even major ministries can do it, and I gave an example.

    The whole article is geared that way.  What can WE do.  It is a valid question, and there are many things we can do.  However, without any mention of the Spirit and His leading, it all becomes a work of the flesh.  You can’t say “it is assumed that ministers are doing this all in the Spirit,” because it doesn’t happen by default.  I think the default is in the flesh.  We need to make a special effort to get our eyes on God and His ways and His plans.

    Personally, I’m not too concerned about my kids.  I’m concerned about doing my part/responsibility as a parent, but salvation is between them and God; they have their own free will.  As I said, salvation is a miracle anyway, and out of our hands.  All we can do is talk the talk and walk the walk.  If anyone frets over this too much, it is because they (wrongly) think it is their responsibility to make their kids Christian, and they will attempt it by acts of the flesh.  You can’t make them Christian.  I have lots of family and friends that aren’t believers.  I do what I feel led for them, but leave it between them and God.

    ...Bernie

  • Posted by Pastor Dan

    While the church must do more to connect our young adults to the church the biggest issue that I see as a pastor/youth pastor (I am 28 yr old Sr. Pastor that is very involved with our youth ministry) is the spiritual commitment of parents.  The teens that have a Mom AND Dad that are committed to their relationship with Christ are staying connected while the ones with lukewarm parents are dropping off the radar.  Also teens that come from a home where neither Mom or Dad is a Christian seem to be staying connected.  I fully agree that we need to conect teens to the church as a whole and not just youth ministry and I believe that our services need to be times where we connect the truth of God’s word with passion, relevance and deep conviction.  Many of the suggestions in this thread have been great.  We need to brainstorm this together and connect each generation to the church - the place and community that God has called us live out our relatonship with Him.

  • Posted by Peter Hamm

    SATIRE alert!!!

    I’ve got an idea. Let’s take all our Christian kids out of the public schools, either home school them or teach them at church schools, and not let them meet, socialize, or even be near unbelieving kids. Let’s make sure they are pumped totally full of sound doctrine and good Christian teaching in the process.

    Especially, let’s keep them from the horrendous ideas of evolution and science that so quickly seem to ruin their young minds.

    Now… the first time they encounter a muslim or buddhist or hindu in college who seems to have their act together (as much as or even more than the Christians they have known), or even an atheist… they dump their faith because they’ve had no balance.

    Maybe we can get this 88% number up past 95%.

    END SATIRE alert!!!

    We are in the world not of it, and we are called to make disciples, not just believers in right doctrine --as important as that is-- but disciples, which means apprentices, followers, studiers of Jesus. People who try to live and be more like Christ. People who DO life as followers of Christ, and who learn how to do that by seeing others do it. How do we do it? We try to be relevant with the timeless Gospel message… JUST LIKE JESUS WAS! I make this attempt, I try (with my flesh? yeah, it’s a great tool God’s given me-- and with prayer and the power of God? Most definitely, most importantly, and most deliberately!) to tell the story of God’s redemption in ways that are relevant, ways that make sense (like Jesus telling stories about farming to farmers...), and ways that make a difference. THAT is what the article is talking about.

    Am I relying on the flesh? Not primarily, but my flesh is the gift God has given me to do His work in the world, and I have a responsibility to do it with increasing excellence… AND relevance… AND attention to sound doctrine and to God’s Word…

  • Posted by BeHim

    Funny thing about being a light - NO matter where you are in darkness, those looking for a way out of the darkness can see it. (contrast)

    Go into a cavern and have a friend stand in the utter darkness on one side of the room and you on another.  Turn out all the lights and have him light a match.

    You don’t need to be “in” the world (worldly/carnal), subject to the influence of it, for the world to see your light.

    Funny thing about salt is it preserves against decay.  Meaning it assaults and stops decay; which is what law does (or is supposed to).  Think of police, when they come around, lawlessness stops doesn’t it.

    BUT when the salt loses its saltiness (becomes like the world) it can’t even be thrown into the dung pile because salt is a crystal and when it dries out it picks up particles of dung and can be blown away into the lungs of people or animals that breathe.  It is to be burned in the fire.

    To assume you have to be “in” the darkness to be a light is contrary to scripture.  You ARE a light and don’t need to act like darkness to trick them into being a light.

    You SHOULD be salt, standing against sin in your house, neighborhood, city, state, region and nation.

    [The church just has a bad habit of forgetting that and cowering in fear from the world around us]

    In fact, it’s not fear, it’s empowering, equipping and good to learn and be prepared to go out into the world.

    It seems the world is doing a better job of teaching and equipping our children.

    [If there are no Christian students in our public schools, are we living up to “go into all the world?” We’re going to need all our Christian teachers who currently bring the light to our public schools, to come and teach in our new Christian schools as well.  So we end up abandoning the place where a great number of this generation spend a great deal of their time.  Sounds like we’re saying, “I’ll take care of the kids in my church (school) and not give a rip about reaching the kids in the public school.”]

    In fact, in does the opposite – it stands in contrast to how bad it can get without the Christian influence.  As I said before, when they want to leave the public school they are more than welcome INTO the Christian influence.

    Suggesting we should sacrifice our children (to the tune of 90%) to be a light and salt doesn’t seem to be working.  It’s time to pull them out and save some.

    [If there are no Christian students in our public schools, are we living up to “go into all the world?”]

    Let’s use your stance for a moment.  Did you go see Hostel or the Hills have Eyes?

    Why not?  The majority of those attending were high school and college students.  Why didn’t you “go out” and subject yourself to that influence to be a light and salt and talk about the Bible and the Gospel.

    We remove our children from the influence so as to protect them and teach them and nurture them so when the world does come with its influence, inevitable, they are able to stand.

    [How to bridge that gap...?  That is the question]

    Equip them to be able to provide an answer – the atheist/liberal/stoic teacher or professor.  The agnostic charismatic; The Mormon, Muslim, Jehovah’s Witness

    Most adult Christians cannot give an account to any discussions they will present.

    I’ve seen pastors cower (fear) at a table with a lawyer who says there is no absolute truth – essentially agreeing with the lawyer that we can’t really know anything for absolute sure – just make a best educated guess.

    What this means is we have to talk to our children about all these beliefs and how they are wrong in contrast to The Truth.

    [Our youth (and it’s really not their fault, since this is a standard evangelical belief) believes that if they ‘give their heart to Jesus’ by saying a sinner’s prayer or something like that, then they have eternal fire-insurance, regardless of how they live their lives--and that that’s the essnce of Christianity.  Doctrinally, that’s a load of hogwash.  But it goes beyond doctrine to mission.]

    Can you have a mission without understanding?  Teaching (doctrine) is how we must FIRST know the mission so we can properly accomplish it.

    If the teaching is wrong wouldn’t it be safe to assume the mission will be too!

    Imagine being a squad leader on the battle field where your captain is telling you to advance because there are only 4 hostiles when in fact, through your goggles you know there are 4000.  If they won’t respond to your pleas (sound doctrine) that there are 4000 and tell you to accomplish your mission regardless, you and your men are doomed to death because mission came before intelligence (understanding of solid data - sound doctrine).

    There is no mission without intelligence - and God (His Sovereignty) is the beginning of our intelligence.

    [The problem is that there is a transition that needs to take place from the traditional, modern mindset of church, to a postmodern mindset that places high value on relationships, experience, and authenticity.]

    Are you sure this is the problem?  How do you know for sure?  Could it be your opinion or is it absolutely founded in scripture?  Has it been tested with scripture? etc…

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