I’ve enjoyed all your comments, but Shadowett says it best , I think. Youth group is exciting years and so much fun. Then you graduate and its like falling off the earth. Churches don’t offer much it’s boring and you quit coming. If you leave for college you might be fortunate to go to a town that has a great church with a great vision for reaching the youth on campus. The word gets out about an exciting church with a great college ministry, you check it out and your hooked. But the church has to have a vision to reach the lost no matter what age they are, and it really helps when they have a minister just for college age. Now remember we are talking about the 88% who are churched and fall away. It’s hard for kids to hang around if there is nothing being offered to them. Smile, now go and tell someone about JESUS.

ok, this is getting ridiculous.  I dont think that any of us are saying that you go around telling people “Jesus loves you”.  That is just stupid.  I think what we are saying is that you lead with love.  Love people first through meeting their needs… if people are hungry, you feed them, if people are sick, you care for them, if people have messy bathrooms, you clean them… if they ask you why you are doing it, you tell them it is because you love them, and you want to care for your neighbor.  You begin to establish the relationship so that you can begin to talk about the sinfulness of man.

Wendi,

I am already feeling a small struggle with the friends of my kids thing.  We have a daughter who is 5 and a neighbour in our building (only a small triplex) who is 6.  She is adopted, comes from a biological mother who perhaps gave her some fetal alcohol syndrome and although her single adoptive mother loves her she has no parenting skills at all.  I have no doubt there is some strong spiritual bondage at work here even though she is a Christian.

Because of their ages, the girls love to play together but it is a mixture of fun, sometimes inappropriate games that I have to step in on and if my daughter ever angers her friend...watch out.  Physical violence has been stopped more than once.  I hear her being manipulative and unkind to my daughter on occasion.  And then there are lots of times when they play together happily. 

My struggle has been to find the balance between how much do I allow this girl to influence my young child and yet how much does my daughter need to see and practice Christ’s love in action.  We’re supposed to love our enemies so we pray for this girl together.  I do allow them to play together but not consistently every day or for long periods of time.  We try and bring her to church sometimes but I worry that the Sunday School would not be equipped to handle one of her outbursts.  I teach her scripture when she’s in our home and try to give her as much love as possible coupled with very strong boundaries.  Over time we have seen improvements.

Anyway, I feel we have found a good balance - a lot of it is listening to the Holy Spirit because there are times when this girl is better and times when I would fear for my kids’ safety.  I simply have to be in prayer on a very regular basis as a Mom so I can sense these things.  I wouldn’t mind your opinion on the situation.

BeHim, I think your analysis of this passage in John is tortured, at best.  I fail to see how Jesus gently and poetically turning the tables on the would be law-abiders embodies God’s Wrath.  If anything, he is gentle and loving both to the adulterous woman and to the self-righteous men (Wendi, you’re no feminist for pointing out their gender--not that being a feminist would be a bad thing anyway!!!--unless you’re a complementarian of course).  Nowhere in this passage does Jesus seem to share the Reformed visceral need to grovel in wretchedness and wrath-deserving-ness.
I my opinion, this is a classic case of re-reading a misinterpreted Paul back into Jesus--which necessarily severely distorts the words and actions of our Lord. 
Anyway, EYS, it sounds like you’re doing just fine with boundaries, so I don’t know that I can add anything of value to what’s already been said (although BeHim’s comments on this matter are spot on).
Cheers,
-Daniel-

Just one quick comment that I want to remphasize from an earlier post is an area that I think this post has failed to address and that is parents.  The greatest problem that is causing the 88% dropout rate from our churches is NOT public schools, or our theology it is nominaly committed parents who not fulfilling their God given responsibilty of raising their children in a home that is centered around a radical commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ.  Of course we need to do more as churches and church leaders to connect our 18+ year olds to their relationship with God and the church but the real issue lies in the home and no one seems to want to deal with this area of the problem. 

BTW - an interesting read on the whole law/grace debate in gospel presentation is “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” by Ray Comfort - check it out.

It seems to me that we need to start with love that equals our burden (or maybe they come from the same source).

Maybe we could start by sitting down with the high school kids and LISTEN to what they are saying about God, church, relationships, etc.  Not leaving it to the young youth directors/pastors to challenge us into the changes they feel the church needs to make...(not bad, just we need personal involvement if we are to understand what kids are saying and thinking).

There is a drastic difference between “youth church” and adult oriented worship services.

I have found one helpful method of working with young singles...don’t lecture them, let them discuss the Bible openly and even question what we believe and come to a conclusion with the Word.

Ramblings, I guess....

Some of you have hit the nail (or should I say people) right on the head.  As a disheartrned former Youth & Music Minister, thats right I did both, the area thats needs addressed has been mentioned here a few times.  I too was guilty of doing two different areas of worship.  One for youth and one for, shall I say older adults.  I realized very quick that something was missing, the church as a family.  I tried to get the youth involved but was fought.  I did get them involved in their own worship service and when the youth was as large as the adults they wondered what I was doing.  I couldn’t possibly be teaching them anything about God.  There was too many of them and they were having fun.  The Pastor sat down and said we need some of this in the main worship.  I prayed fervantly for God to show me how to incorporate the two and got nothing but complaints.  Why to the young people have to worship that way, we don’t like the music, they don’t wear the right clothes. After seven years there the church ask me to leave, well not in those words, but that was the implied statements.  The Pastor has been there over 20 years and didn’t want to cause waves.  The older folks do pay the bills, so they get their way.  I thought its was Gods money.  Until Pastors get out of their comfort zone and the older generation quits complaining and starts being the church, instead of just sitting on the premissis, the church will be just a nice building.  And by the way if you think I’m some young punk, I’m 49 and was a minister for over 15 years.  I’ve not given up on Jesus, just the present church!

Bill,

Sorry to hear about church experience. I know it was probably a “broad brush” statement, but don’t give up on the church. It is the only hope for the world, and there are churches that desire to be authentic. I have had the privilege of serving in a church where we have laughed together, and cried together (pre-marital pregnancies) and supported one another through these events. And in all of that, by God’s grace, have managed to reach some people in our community for Him!

I have jumped into this one rather late, so forgive me if I make a statement that’s already been made - I skimmed most of what was posted above.

In the job I am in, I have worked with many young adults. When they find out that I am a “preacher/pastor” on the side - I have been a pastor and now do pulpit fill - I have some good opportunities to talk with them about faith, God, salvation, etc…

Many of these young people I talk to that were brought up in church and in a Christian home reflect these survey results perfectly. As soon as they were out of the house, they immediately stopped going to church. The question is, “why?” Was it because the church was not contemporary enough? No. Was it because their parents didn’t pray enough for them - no (I agree that we need to pray more for our kids, but it goes deeper than just prayer, as I’ll get to). Was it because they church was not relevant enough to them and had enough “programs” for them? Not at all. Every single one of them left the church because they didn’t see the value of their faith. 100% - every one of them expressed a discontent with the church that came back to that one single thing - their faith had no value to them.

Why did it not have any value? In every case - remember, many of these young people were raised in church - most in a “Christian” home - in every case it was the lack of a good spiritual example from their parents. Their parents were either identified as hypocrites - one 21 year old male said he could not stand to go back to church (especially where his father preaches) because when his dad is in the pulpit saying one thing - this young man reflects on what his dad is really like at home, and he sees two different people. Now, none of us are perfect… but he brought up a good point.

Every one of the young people I’ve talked to about why they left the church have revealed to me (without knowing it) that their parents negatively shaped their view of the value of their faith by how their parents acted at home, away from church. Hypocritcal behavior, apathy toward prayer, lack of reading the scriptures, lack of applying scripture to life situations - plain outright disregard for the instruction of scripture, etc… The kids failed to see faith as being relevant in the lives of their parents, and so they have concluded that church, faith, God is one big sham. In their minds the question is - “what’s the point?”

Yes, we do need to pray more for our kids, as was brought up earlier, yes, we do need to be relevant to them - but not to keep them interested - rather, to help them see how their faith is valuable to their lives. And most of all, as parents, we need to live out our faith every day and in every situation - not just being a “Sunday Christian.” If we set an example for our kids to show them that our faith centers around God, rather than ourselves (which most Christians sadly think), then we’ll have made a major step in keeping our kids and producing true Christians.

Is it foolproof? Is it 100% effective - no. It’s still up to our kids as to what they’re going to do with their faith. However, we need to set the good example for them to follow. And as pastors, we need to instruct our congregations in this as well. Our kids learn from us. It’s up to us as to what they learn.

I just happened to stumble upon this page after reading a NY Times article today about evangelicals losing the teenage population and getting curious.  I have never been to this site before but felt compelled to leave a comment.

I am 20 years old and grew up in the Presbyterian Church.  I’ve also attended services many times at Methodist churches of family members and friends, as well as three or four Baptist churches, a Catholic church and a Jewish temple.  Basically, I’ve been exposed to pretty much all of the major religions in America.  Growing up we went to church 3 or 4 times a month, not necessarily every week, but close.  I was active in my youth group. I served for a year as the youth elder, during which time I even served as the Clerk of Session.  The point I’m trying to make is that I was raised in a very Christian environment.

I wanted to provide some insight into the mind of a Generation Y member like myself, now attending college.  I say that I was brought up Christian and obviously was very active in my church, but despite all that I was never able to force myself to actually believe any of it.  Sure, I could believe in being a good person and helping my neighbors, but I couldn’t believe in any of the rest of it.  The reason that churches are having trouble making religion relevant to young people isn’t some failure on their part, but simply that religion *isn’t* relevant.  As a collective group, Christians are fighting battles against all the wrong “enemies.” When churches fight against gay marriage and equal rights for gays, the alienate every homosexual teenager and everyone who has gay friends, like myself.  This is the generation that is finally making progress towards tolerance for homosexuals.  In 50 years, the preachers that fought against gay rights will be remembered with the same disdain as those that fought against rights for blacks in the past.  Many Christians find it necessary to fight the theory of evolution, attempting to present it as junk science or an unproven theory.  Everybody who has been taught evolution by a competent teacher understands it as one of the strongest scientific theories we have.  This alienates all of those people.  No competent people believe the Earth is 10,000 years old, or that Adam and Eve were literally the beginning of humanity, or that people who work on the Sabbath should be stoned to death.  So all bibilical literalists alienate all rationalists, a segment of the American population which, thankfully, is growing with each generation.

The only way for Christianity to remain relevant is to drop the crusade against gay rights, stem cell research, abortion, pre-marital sex, evolution, science, pornography, VACCINES THAT PREVENT CERVICAL CANCER and everything else that makes it irrelevant and unacceptable in the modern day.  In order to modernize itself properly, Christianity will have to completely change.  This 88% statistic comforts me like you would not believe.