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Am I the Biggest Sucker in the World?

Orginally published on Thursday, June 01, 2006 at 9:50 AM
by Todd Rhoades

Tootsiepop I get many emails each week from people with questions about church staff and personnel issues.  Here is one that has to do with pay... an believe it or not, it is not an uncommon scenario.  Read this short note, and take a few minutes to give your feedback below:

Dear Todd,

I am at a church that we love. I am non-paid staff. We have been here for 5 yrs, with the elusive promise of pay. I am ready to graduate in 6 mths with a concentration in my ministry. I have worked for free, and accumulated $$$ in tuition debt. The church has not paid for any of my schooling. I have been receiving offers, but my church has asked me not to take them, that the time will come when they will "fairly" compensate me.

Am I the sucker of all time??? Am I being taken advantage of?

Well... what do you think?  I told this person that I'd post his/her email on the blog and see what kind of comments we get.  What do you think... are they a sucker or should they stick in there and see what happens?  Has a similar situation ever happened to you?  How did you handle it?  Take a few moments and add to the response!


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 TRACKBACKS: (0) There are 214 Comments:

  • I agree with David and Chris. I am in a similar situation. i am a senior in college. I am actually the worship minister of a year old church plant. The church has promised to bring me on full time in five years from the time we planted the church. Well I have prayed about it and I believe God has given me wisdom in the proverb that talks about your gift making room for you. I have found that even though I don’t receive regular compensation from the church, its ok because i know that they can’t afford to pay me right now due to the money we bring in going to the community and our efforts to share the gospel with them. Is that a reason why the church isn’t paying you.
    In the first six months It was so hard. the gas alone was killing me. But after being faithful I found that God was using my gift that affected people to cause them to give to me. Coming from a church that just paid me to a church I depended on people to be obedient to God was hard. But I knew at the end of the day or the moment that it was truly God in the decision not inspite of the decision. Make sure God is in your decision moving and working to bless you not moving and working to bless you even though you made the easy or most popular choice that may not have been his choice.

    I hope it helps and gives you another aspect.

  • Posted by

    A worker is worthy of his wages, I ‘ve heard of those kind of promises but they seem to never come to pass.

  • Posted by

    I agree that sometimes we may feel like a sucker when we are about God’s will for our lives.  I wonder if Jesus ever felt like a sucker for serving his followers without pay for three years.

    I know how this person feels.  I have been in a similar situation for five years.  The church we serve was running about 50 when we arrived.  I had been in full time ministry for 30 years but left to move closer to my family so that my son who is an only child could have a history with them after we graduate to heaven.

    When the pastor found out about us he offered to allow me to serve with him as a volunteer with the promise that when they grow large enough I would go on full time paid staff.  Five years and 350 members attending later I am still holding down a secular job, volunteering my experience and have seen 3 paid staff added.  I don’t feel like a sucker.  It has been my choice, however, my son has gone away to college in another state and I am ready to return to full time paid ministry.

    Any time the decision is made to give to the Lord I think we are planting seed towards a great reward from our wonderful Father. What you have sewn will be rewarded.  It is the church you are helping who will lose when you leave because they don’t see this.

    I pray God’s best for you.

  • Posted by

    If the individual who sent you that email is still out there, and reading MMI, I’d love to know what has happened in the past 10 months! Any change?

  • Posted by Rich

    It is hard to say “no” to leaders who you trust...even when they do not work in your best interest.  Sucker?  Only if you are not willing to hold them accountable for what they said they would do.  Give them a date and like others have said, get it in writing.  If they decline to do those things, leave right away, but quietly, to get some space.

  • Posted by Joe Johnson

    From one sucker to another… I spent a couple years, and after leaving the church had a discussion with the pastor who thought perhaps the church should have helped with my seminary. I haven’t received a check yet, but I at least got liscensed (as a result of my post-church conversation).
    GET OUT! Run! Don’t look back or you’ll just see needs, guilt and student-loan collectors.

  • Posted by

    Scripture makes it clear in 1 Timothy 5 that a laborer is worthy of his wages.  It is precisely this reason some will look at the church in disgust and walk away.

    They are sinning against God and your family and they need to be told as much.  To say they can’t afford it, turn off the lights during the day and open the windows.  The staff needs to eat, the building is just a meeting place.

  • Posted by

    One other side note, they should cut off all mission support to outside ministers if they are not taking care of their own mission and missionaries.

    Church leaders should know this!

  • Posted by Randy Ehle

    I tend to agree with BeHim on this one (at least his first post today).  May I offer a word to employers, whether in the church or any other business?  Don’t offer a future carrot unless you’re certain you can feed it to the horse.  I’ve had promotions, raises, and bonuses offered to me only to find that when the time to pay up came, business had changed.  And hearing things like, “you’re already doing the work of a Director, I just can’t give you the title” didn’t help much.  That doesn’t mean I was a sucker to stay in the job, but I did learn to take those future promises with a grain of salt.  (In other words, I don’t believe them anymore, and I don’t make my career decisions based on them.  If I’m satisfied at my current salary and my current position, I’ll stay.  If not, I’ll look for a change and possibly use that as a bartering position to get the raise or promo that was promised me.)

    A word to employees: Don’t believe the promises, even if the one who makes it is a normally trustworthy person.  Reminds me of when James wrote about not knowing what tomorrow brings.  That trustworthy person may not be around when the time comes to honor the promise he made.  (I’ve had that happen before, too.)

  • Posted by

    Interesting question(s) I would ask if the individual is called to full time (vocational)ministry, and if so have they thought about how much is enough,(how much do you need?) and how does the church determine when to hire how much to pay as well as what are the expectations.  Ive been a sucker a number of times but I have also known I was the sucker. Bi-vocational I think assumes that the church will pay something, other wise it is just mono-vocational with a side of volunteerism.  Of course the church would not want you to consider other positions they will have to replace you and that could actually cost them something.  I had a friend say to me (I was in a similar situation) “I see your committment to them where is their committment to you?” Just some ramblings on the subject.

  • Posted by

    Wow....I’m going to have to remember this....I just entered into an unpaid youth pastor position to gain some experience while still going to school.....The pastor explained that the church is moving buildings and doesn’t have a ton of money right now (as we have to do some major repairs on our new building) but that if I keep the position for a while (he didn’t acctually ever specify how long “a while” is) that I would get some form of pay compensation......I understand that its great experience as has been said above but I really don’t need to be paying $20,000 a year for my college expenses, working at least 10 hours a week spending time with the kids and building relationships and teaching them and working 30 hours a week on the midnight shift for UPS.....its a recipe for burnout.....

    Todd, I am really glad that you posted this and I am eternally grateful to everyone that responded because frighteningly enough I am going to be in the author of the note’s shoes here in a year or so...especially getting married next May.....

  • Posted by

    I wouldn’t use the word “sucker.” There are valuable lessons that God has undoubtedly taught through the current ministry opportunity. I wouldn’t wait until you got another offer though, before letting the church know that you are beginning the process of seeking God’s direction for your ministry assignment from Him, and would like to include them in your consideration if they felt they were interested in having you serve. I would recommend pursuing other opportunities of places of ministry—evaulating them all before the Lord, and then prayerfully making the decision (with spouse if married). I don’t know why no remuneration (even a stipend or gift) doesn’t seem to have been offered. That would cause me to include that as part of the consideration in weighing places of ministry

  • Posted by Jan

    I don’t think you are a sucker.  You have been serving the Lord and learning and investing in people.  That says a lot about you and your heart for ministry.

    I DO say that when a church gets to the point of telling you not to look at offers than they better have one in hand.

    Their promises are too vague and it’s time for them to make you an offer you can accept or decline. 

    If it were me (and we have done this!) I would put a budget down on paper that outlines all your expenses including the housing in your area, projected expenses and school loan repayment.  Come up with a figure you need to make it and then go to the pastor and give it to him, with a time frame for them to respond.

    Ask them to prayerfully consider what they are going to do while you do the same.  After the allotted time, they will either seriously have a proposal for you or you will know it’s time to move on.

    If they don’t come up with one, or offer you some ridiculous amount that you can’t survive on (especially after serving for 5 years free!) and you accept or wait, THEN I’d start calling you names.
    Jan

  • Posted by

    Judging from the August 2005 posts to this question, it appears that it is being re-examined.  Having 25 years of human resource management experience with Fortune 100 companies and now over four years in a paid church ministry position, I’ll offer the following observations and recommendations as if the question was current.

    Personally, I do not see the question with the facts as presented as being whether one is or is not a sucker. God has allowed you to serve Him in ministry for five years while going to school.  One might call this experience garnering opportunity to be an unpaid apprenticeship or extended internship and part of God’s investment in your future of service to Him.  The fact that you have continued in this role suggests that God intended it and that you and this church were pleased with and accepted the arrangement. 

    School loans certainly do not cover all of one’s living expenses with or without dependents, so it would appear that God has adequately provided for your needs for an extended period of time.  VERY few students leave four years or more of college without some measure of student loans which also is an investment in one’s future regardless of where God uses your talents, knowledge and experience.

    It is neither wise nor professional to give a current employer/service situation an “either/or” implied or overtly stated threat to leave unless you have the “or” option clearly in place.  Often these negative kinds of threats to normal egos in any situation tend to get one terminated for perceived insubordinate confrontation.  And with that would follow a less than favorable employment reference despite the five years of otherwise satisfactory service.  Therefore, you should first prayerfully pursue other options to the point of receiving an offer.  This effort is neither disingenuous with nor unfaithful to your current church.  In exploring your options, if any, God may well use this process to reveal His next plan for your life that are not now visible to you as well as plans of which He may have for your current church that the church leadership may not yet be aware.

    Once you receive a genuine offer, you promptly need to prayerfully and respectfully present this offer to your current church leadership in the context with which you obtained it--trying to learn the next steps of God’s will for your life and His two churches now involved in your career decsion.  You should advise your current church leadership of the specifics of the role, salary, and benefits package of the new ministry situation being offered.  The role being offered to you will likely be different than what you are now doing or what you may be doing in your current church after you complete your schooling.  You should politely advise the current church leadership that you have x days to let the offering church know of your decision to accept or decline.  Then both you and the current church leadership now know that they have a specific amount of time to counter or not.  God works in mysterious ways, and much will be revealed to everyone involved during that time x days time frame.  Through this process, you and your current church as well as the offering church will learn what God has next for everyone.  “Change is the only constant"--even in the ministry community. The the suggestions I have offered allow for a polite, timely, professional and spiritual way to manage one’s career changes as God leads one to them

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