Todd, here is a good example of the difference a staff led and a congregationally led church. Ideally there is harmony in the staff reagrdless of how they were put together. But if this person was hired by the pastor then his is at the will of the senior pastor in a staff led situation. If he was called by the congregation that is where the ultimate loyalty lies. There are advantages to both systems and difficulties with both systems.

if this person is in a dictatorial relationship with this SP and this leadership style is not the way he can function under, then it is time to seek another place. Because sooner or later he might be sent packing because he does not fit the direction or whim of the CEO pastor. There many staff people who have been used and burned by the driven CEO pastor. Often they just leave the church period.

My two cents, for the good of your family and your ministry and your heart, find a new home.

If this were a job in any other environment, when the board brings in a new guy, you do what the new guy says. If you don’t like it, it’s not your job to change the leader, you need to find a leader you can follow. Or yield to the new guy. If the dude isn’t in sin, do what the boss says.

If you really love and want to serve the church, take a different job and become a volunteer. Serve without the paycheck and it becomes a little easier to draw the boundaries.

If you want to call the shots, you gotta go start your own church, raise up your elders and leaders from scratch, and be more free to move in the direction you think is most God-honoring. Planting from scratch takes blood, sweat, and tears, too.

If you’re not called to be a senior pastor and you’re called to full-time ministry at a church, then you have to submit to the man God has put in charge. I heard Mark Driscoll say in a recent podcast that submission isn’t submission until you and the boss disagree. When you agree, what is there to submit to?

I am a worship leader myself, here’s my story. (WARNING: It’s not short)

My wife and I began to attend a church that met in a camp meeting building. I had been involved in music all of my Christian life and felt that was the extent of my involvment. We were both Bible School grads with a young family, 3 kids, etc. The first Sunday we attended they were doing karaokee worship with a boom box, a live drummer, a live flute, and 3 voices. It was worship, and all my training in “worship music” went out the window and the Lord showed me how precious the heart is in worship.

Shortly after that, they moved to a newly built school and began to ask for people to volunteer for some areas. I voluteered to play Bass on occassion when they wanted one. The pastor was a good man, yet after spending some private time with him it appeared to me there was a carnal nature about this man. The church would grow to 75 or 80 and split, usually because an assistant pastor had had a run in with this Sr. Pastor. It happened 4 or 4 times over 3 years.

Everytime it did, people would call and tell us the “scoop”. We generally just had to say that we would agree with their argument but don’t feel God has given us permission to leave. The man was not a very good teacher, even less of an adminstrator, and even less of a shepherd. My wife and I on more than one occassion would ask each other on the way home, “Why did he say that in his sermon?” We thought he might be intentionally sabotaging the church. For whatever reason we had no idea. But after praying we both felt the Lord hadn’t released us.

After 4 assistant pastors, and three worship leader in 2 years, he came to me and asked if I would begin to lead worship. I accepted on the condition that he required nothing else from me. I was not to be considered an assistant by any means. I come, I do worship, and I go home. He agreed.

Of course, there was the issue of setting up and tearing down every week....so the sound system became my deal. Of course the chairs needed setting up, and somehow that became my deal also. Of course there were the Welcome and Sunday School tables which......became my deal also. I owned my own successful business that needed me on Saturday’s, I didn’t have time for this. But for some reason, I kept doing it...hating it more and more.

One Saturday as I was pushing what seemed like 3 tons of equipment down the hall, it all topples over and stuff went everywhere. I screamed and yelled and kicked things and said things I hadn’t said in a long time, and in an “almost audiable” voice, the Lord said, “Who are you doing this for?” Ahhh...was that who it think it is?  “Yep, Who are you doing this for?”

From that day on, I began to look forward to those Saturdays. Our practices started to become times of some of the sweetest worship I’ve ever known. As my business required me to be out of town for 4 days a week, as I would sit in my hotel rooms the Lord would lay the vistors from the previous week on my heart. I began to take the vistor cards on the road with me and would call them and welcome them to the church, and if I could pray with them for anything. People who I noticed were MIA that week, I would call and visit with them.

All that might seem like not much, but you see I was the most selfish person I’ve ever known. I didn’t have time to listen to others problems, much less pray for them. I had my problems, they had theirs, we’ll just keep em to ourselves and get along just fine. But God was transforming the heart of very self centered man. (Tears in my eyes just thinking about it)

Over the next year and a half I grew to love people unconditionally, “more of less” (I’m still working on it). Seven years ago while that Sr. Pastor and I were fishing one day he began to share some things about what was going on in his life and that he was thinking about retiring and moving to different state. The church was down to 40 or 50 and some weeks he would say some of the most off the wall things that my wife and I both wondered, “why are we still here?”

He called one day while I was out of town and said he needed to share something with me. We met at a restaurant and when I walked in 4 other individuals were there that I recognized as the board of elders. I remember walking up to that table and thinking, “they’re gonna axe me!” I’ve worked my behind off and they’re gonna axe me. In a moments notice I was ready to take my licks and get on my life.

As we ate they juat smiled and talked like nothing was too wrong. And then the moment came. “We’ve been praying. (Ya, standard language for you’re done, you’re toast) The pastor has decided to retire and the Lord has laid you on our hearts to take the church. Would you consider that?

Ever had that time in your life when you can feel your heart beat....in your head? I was amazed. But I knew in that instant that it was to be so. All the changes that had been taking place suddenly became clear as to their pupose and who was behind it. My wife and I travailed mostly over the exposure of our young children to the minstry which can be brutal, but eventually excepted.

After a time of transition that went very well, he retired, and moved, and so began my life as a Sr. Pastor. We’ve grown to around 700 and have survived two building projects. The church has remained healthy and growing in spite of my ignorant attempts at destroying it on occassion and to this day I still lead worship (my passion), teach, and administrate (At least there is never any friction between the Pastor and the Worship Leader). I have a great staff that I would never trade for anything except if the Lord was to move them to start another church, which as happened on several occassions also.

I guess my point is that even in circumstances that seem difficult, less than desirable, not what you signed up for, or what you would prefer for yourself, be sure you really hear from the Lord before you remove yourself. You may be taking yourself out of a life changing opportunity. Today, I can not imagine doing anything else with my life. And I’m glad the Lord saw fit to be patient with me as His providence was molding me into something He could use. Your commitment is not to the Pastor, nor even to the church, it’s to the Lord and Him alone. It is with Him that the sun rises and falls, you can trust Him.

It’s a common thing today to view the “call of God” with the corporate mentality. I think someone said earlier “When a new boss comes in you do what He says or find a leader you can follow.” I understand that statement and would from an earthly perspective agree but in my humble opinion there’s never been but One Boss in the church, and that is Christ. Submission to His authority makes working for a difficult “boss”......not easier......but worthy. Worthy of the honor due to the One who called you.

Sorry so long. Hope it helps someone.

Dan

Dan,

That help me.  Thanks for the testimony.

Blessings,
Al

Thank you Dan for taking the time to share.  I needed to hear what you shared so badly.  Thank you.  And Bernie, too.  Thank you very much.

I agree with Bernie’s comments on this - kinda.  We are not PRIMARILY called to a church or a pastor, but our specific calling usually includes an individual church.  I also think there is value in seeking the wisdom of other believers, through whom God often speaks. 

The last time my wife and I left a church it was very, very difficult.  We had been there for 15 years and had seen the church grow from a single service with 150 people to several thousand spread out over six identical weekend services.  We did not want to leave, but God had called, and after many tears we did leave.

... back to agreeing with Bernie.

One of the things we learned is that “our” individual church had come to mean too much to us.  We’re called to serve God, not just (insert church name).  God may move us elsewhere to accomplish his purposes.  Or he may leave us in one place for our entire ministry career. 

I applied the point of view I formed in the military - you get a set of orders, you serve there until the next set of orders comes through, then you go and serve elsewhere.  Keep in mind who the Commander-in Chief is, not just the local commander, and don’t become too attached to your current assignment.  Make sure you stay open to God’s voice, and if he wants to move you, he’ll make sure you get a copy of your orders.

Dave

And I would add that a house divided cannot stand.

I don’t think it’s a question of being called to a pastor or a church.  We are called to ministry.

We’ve been in a church where the pastor said one thing to us and did another behind our back.  It did not last long, because we could not practically accomplish anything in that environment.

Ultimately, if I cannot respect a pastor, it’s very hard to serve with joy and passion.  And do I want to do less?  Does God want less for me in ministry?  I’m not saying that God doesn’t just call us to the easy way.  We wouldn’t be where we are if that were true!

But I do say that if you are serving in a ministry with a team, you have to have a common vision and purpose, and understanding and you have to know that the other team members will watch your back.

And without that you are going to have a grip load of frustration.

I Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

Perhaps it would be helpful for you to study Ephesians 4 and I Corinthians 12 as you struggle with understanding the role of your gifts. Paul emphasizes that each of us has been given gifts for the purpose of building up the Church. I use the word “Church” with a capital “C” to refer to the wider Church, not an individual congregation, but the Church that is the body of Christ—of whom Christ is the head.

The day-to-day practicalities and difficulties of serving Christ through a congregation comprise my most difficult —and my most joyous-- life experiences. A pastor once told me the most wonderful thing about the Church is that it is made up of human beings, and the most frustrating thing about the Church is that it is made up of human beings.

Personally, I think that when we work closely with others in ministry, our delusions fall away and the magnifier of proximity exposes human flaws that we don’t really notice when we simply worship together. Every day I have to remind myself to focus on Christ, not these human flaws. I must lovingly figure out how to apply my gifts to His work while doing it with other humans who are flawed—like me.

That said, I have been a part of an unhealthy congregation where I felt it very difficult to serve Christ faithfully and I was unwilling or unable to challenge the failed leadership that contributed to the dysfunctional climate. After much prayer, I think that I was actually delivered out of a situation that became damaging for me as a child of God. It was painful, difficult, faith-challenging—but I have grown in forgiveness and faith as I healed and felt called eventually to a new congregation. I know there are no perfect congregations. But there are healthy ones--and unhealthy ones.

I belive that each of us is on a personal discipleship journey no less challenging than it was for the first 12. This journey is not linear - it has tangents and curves and forks in the road - but it is the journey of a life time. Each of us has been given at least one - if not many - spiritual gifts for the purpose of building up Christ’s Church (big “C") and I sincerely, wholeheartedly believe: the gift is itself a call. Why would God give us the gift if he did not want us to apply it in his service?

I think you must respect the authority of both the pastor and the congregation given to them by God - but that you are meant to serve Christ THROUGH your ministry with others. Take time to pray and discern your gifts and your calling, and walk with Jesus every step of the way.

“Am I Called To The Church or The Pastor?”

Neither.  You are called to serve God.

John 2:23-25
23Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.[a] 24But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. 25He did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.