I think I was at the same conference that Perry was when Ed shared this illustration.  I used it a couple of years ago and the response was very positive.  People still talk about it and when they do I always ask them if they remember the point of the illustration and they always do.  It’s the best illustration I’ve ever used.  Too bad it will only work once with a congregation.

I thought this was great! Check out the mp3 (http://www.newspring.cc/media/mp3/FD/FD_05.mp3) and video (http://www.newspring.cc/storage/avclub/video/NewSpringPunkd.mov) of it as well. This is the kind of thing that can just really hit home with someone.

I like the illustration, but…

lying has no place on the pulpit/stage/platform.

Case in point, I took some students to an amusement park thing where a well-known Christian speaker opened up a rally.  He shared how the night before he has been staying at a hotel and kids kept knocking on his door, and then he surprised them and one of the boys yelled like a girl and said “mommy!” We all laughed, of course.

Six months later at a different rally, the speaker used the same illustration, citing that “just last night” a group of kids were knocking on his door… and yes, it ended with “mommy!”

Everyone in the place laughed… except for my kids who leaned over and asked, “Isn’t that the same story from last time?”

The speakers topic that day?  Living a life of integrity.

I tried sharing this with him after the rally, and he went bonkers on me.  In a total defensive banter, he accused me of having no right to challenge what is purely comedy.  Then he stormed off.

Hmmm… lessons?

We did this about a year ago (we stole it from Fellowship as well) We decided to do Rick Warren instead of a pop singer. One of our staff guys came out in a hawaiian shirt. Problem was our people weren’t sure what Rick looked like so they didn’t figure out for awhile that it wasn’t him. Some people are still mad.

Fast forward to this fall when we’re talking to Rick about coming to a big event we’re doing with other churches in our area. Yeah, our people are going to believe that Rick is coming to South Carolina. ("No, really, this time we meant it")

Pretty funny stuff.

Tony, lying?  I guess I can see where you might be coming from...but here is my take. 

I strive to live a life of integrity...and I know I probably fall short many times; however, I do not feel that this past Sunday was one of them. 

In my mind I was merely using an illustration to prove a point--kind of like Jesus did with the parables. 

Do you really think that a woman lost a coin & had a party when she found it?  Do you really think that a Samaritan fell among robbers and...well, you know the story?  How about the prodigal son--did that really happen? 

Jesus was a master story teller...and He made up stories that proved a point.  I personally do not question His integrity on this...I don’t think because He was creative in His communication that He was a liar. 

I am not attempting to debate...I just wanted to throw out how I personally wrestled through this and the conclusion I came to.  I appreciate your convictions and respect your right to have them.  God bless!

I thought this was hillarious.  I don’t think it is a lie when you disclose that you were using an illistration in the same sermon.
Hope some folks got the point.

I don’t know, Perry.  I know if I was one of your congregation and you told me on another Sunday, “Bono” from U2 is here, I might not have the same trust to turn my head.

I get the point about Jesus… but when He told the story He was using a rabbincal teaching method that people were familiar with.  In other words, I’m assuming they were assuming it to be a story.

I wonder if this illustration used in the way you did was understood in the same way.  Was it ethical to trick your people?  I’d argue “no.”

I like the illustration, but I think we need to be *above* reproach… so I’d say something like, “What if I were to tell you this morning that I was hanging out with Tim McGraw yesterday?  And what if I were to tell you that a major celebrity happened to be with us this morning?  (pause) Did anyone turn their heads?  Notice that I said ‘What if?’ and it caused a stir.  Imagine if I actually tried to smoke you and told you that Tim was in the building and his wife Faith was parking the car… would anyone need a quick, um… ‘bathroom break?’ I ask you these ‘What if’ questions because that’s all they are… now let me tell you about Someone who IS in the house… His name is Jesus Christ.”

Same point - no slipping below the line.

Thanks for hearing me out.  As I mentioned, I have a sensitivity button on this per my experience.  Hope we can sharpen each other.

Thanks for letting me offer some sharpening.  I’m sure you weighed the factors… but we all have blind spots.  That includes you and me both.

Let’s just keep after the main goal… helping people grow in their love for God and each other.  I’m sure the process won’t always be perfect, but that’s why we have each other… to share new ideas and refine past ones.

Blessings,

T.

Wonderful illustration. Of course we have to weight the issue of deceiving the congregation in with the overall gameplan. There might have been a better way of doing it, but...the point is excellent.

As for Tony Miles, the guy who heard the youth rally speaker lie and excuse it as “comedy”, I have quit taking my youth to youth events because of the lack of integrity and wealth of manipulation by “christian youth specialists.” They are no better (and no more honest) than used car salesman.

Good fodder, “When is a lie not a lie?”. My teens should love this, as if they need any reason to “streach the truth or cover up disinformation”. Give us a break, do we all sound that stupid? What ever happened to Exodus 20?
Rev Jay

I think the Church is to carnal and that we as leaders are to blame because we allow politicians, celebrities to visit our churches and conferences and forget they need God.  We see them in the spotlight doing what sinners do(not all of them)but the majority, and we forget what Jesus commanded us to do REACH the LOST.  I remember been invited to a meeting where I could speak to the local ministers about Bible-College at the ministers meeting they gave me five minutes to talk about bible college, but they spoke forty five about politics. Hummmmm