I want to thank the people from Kinetic Church who have chimed in here and added their insight onto things. 

MC:

“If we wrote “We forgive you” on a sign, would it make as big of an impact?”

Like Wendi said, the message on the billboard bordered on condemnation, but the message in the video was forgiving.  That’s what leads to a little confusion here.

AM:

“Don’t worry that you did not like the word “ballsy”.  It was not meant for you or for others who are churched.  It was meant to reach out, not just to the thieves, but to those who are lost and hurting.  To those with really messy lives who feel they have no hope.”

Should I reach out to others who are hurting by using profanity?  How about a billboard with a scantily-clad person?

nathan:

“if you’ll listen again to what dave says, we have people in our midst who don’t like christians.  and he says he finds that interesting.  don’t you?”

Actually, I find that disappointing, because we are called to love the brethren and to enjoy being around them.  (1 John)

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CS

I attend Kinetic Church and I have to say that I disagree with everything about the Billboards.  Who cares about the message we’re trying to communicate to the theives, the central problem is that EVERYONE can see the billboards and NONE of them communicates the love and forgiveness we have through Jesus. 

As a church, we hear about the trailer week in and week out.  At first it was an uplifiting experience and we were drawn together.  But now it seems that we just can’t let it go and get on with the ministry. Everything that was stolen was just stuff, most of which either has been or will be replaced.

If you didn’t see, there were about 25-30 possible billboards, only one of which communicated forgiveness.  It is a travesty that our pastor relies on people with such condemnation in their hearts.  As such I can not agree with the direction of our church and will likely be searching for a new one.

The real issue is that the if one person is kept from being introduced to Christ by this campaign, then the price was too high.

Leonard:

“I would suggest opening up to what people are saying not looking for the flaw.”

As I explained earlier in this thread, I listened to the complete message, heard something that sent up a red flag, showed why that language concerns me, but praised the overall message. 

“As for the word ballsy… don’t create a false argument about scantily clad… or profanity.”

Let’s dive a little deeper into this, and to warn people, unfortunately, I will have to go into vulgar etymology here.

The word, “ballsy,” comes from the colloquialism that an action, “takes a lot of balls.” By, “balls,” this word is referring to male genitalia, from which, it is said, someone has courage.  So if you have, “big balls,” you have a lot of gumption, or guts, to do something.

In other words, we have a church using a vulgarity about testicles to make a point about the bravado thieves used in their crime.  Doesn’t this exactly go against the type of coarse jesting or filthy language recommended against in Ephesians 5 or Colossians 3? 

By the same token, it would also fall into the same realm as profanity in light of Scripture.  So when we have people saying that the use of an f-bomb would be fine in this situation, I have to ask, “what are they thinking?” and my “straw man” argument takes merit. 

Judging from J’s comment, too, it looks like others in their church are also having problems with the billboard as well.  Perhaps not with the language directly, per se, but with the mixed messages, too.

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CS

I know where the word Ballsy comes from, but thanks for the lesson, I just don’t agree it is the illustration of Paul’s words in Ephesians or Colossians.  I don’t think it is the same as the F-Bomb either. 

It is a false argument since it is also not what the church did.  To take a common phrase and that every person not looking for a flaw sees as courage or gutsy and equate it with sex or the f-bomb to make a point is one step too many in my opinion. 

It happens when we look for what is wrong instead of what is actually being said.

nathan:

I like the idea of the Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?” mentality, and wished that we didn’t have squabbles, too.  But, like Paul said to Timothy, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Tim 2:15) We cannot have unity at the forsaking of truth.

We have to be looking at everything to see where it is in light of Scripture, because, as Paul also warned Timothy, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.”

Am I saying that this church is giving into the seducing spirits or the doctrines of devils?  Absolutely not.  But I stand by my statement that “ballsy” is what Paul was decrying in Ephesians and Colossians, and that is something that needs to be denounced. 

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CS

“Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.”

It seems to me that Paul’s injunction against coarse joking has to do with irreverent and godless talk.  And we all agree that the ultimate intention of these billboards and video are to ‘give grace to those who hear’.  Both the thieves and the public.

They are attempting to communicate in a way that will understood by their audience and build them up.  Dropping the f-bomb would have a different effect then ballsy.  The f-bomb is a very strong invective, whereas ‘ballsy’ feels more diffusing of the situation rather than condemning the perps.

CS- (AKA Master Yoda)

I found this on http://www.jonathanbow.com, I thought you might enjoy it!

<embed src= “http://www.jonathanbow.com/carry_the_light/files/star_wars_spoof.mov” height="400" width="400" autostart="0"></embed>

Luke:

Fail the URL hotlinking you do. 

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CS

I am also a member of Kinetic. While I whole-heartedly support the leadership of our church, I really believe that this issue has done a great deal to hurt many within our congregation.

Yes, there are a lot of people who stand behind the billboard campaign. Yet there are many who do not.

I love Dave, but he did make this decision while only consulting a very small percentage of our body. Yet, each billboard is signed with the tag-line “kineticchurch.com.” Like it or not, such a signature implies that the entire congregation is speaking with one voice. This is not the case.

Dave has no idea just how many people are hurt by this move. I hope it will blow over in time, but this may well serve as a moment in our young history that serves as a turning point. Hopefully it will be one for the better. I fear that it will ultimately lead to many looking elsewhere. I personally do not want to leave Kinetic. However, unless Dave does something to unify the church at this time, I too will start looking for a new place to call home.

I was approached at work last week by a woman who liked the forgiveness aspect of the billboards and the humor found in some of the messages. However, as a fellow believer she was horrified to have to explain to her 6-year old daughter what “ballsy” meant, and why it was on a church sign. In loving my church, there was nothing I could do to rationalize the need for such a statement.

I love Dave. He is a man of God, and has embraced me since day 1. However, its time for the church to turn away the tv cameras and the publicity, because many of us just want a church, not a reality tv show. Leave the drama where it belongs.

I trust Dave will do the right thing in the days ahead. He must continue to push forward in the days ahead with a positive campaign to spread God’s word, love, and mercy. Yet, he also needs to turn around and tend to the flock who have stood behind him for so long, but who have been offended by these signs, and the attention that may be doing more harm than good.

Aren’t Christians allowed to be PO’d? Are they not allowed to express both anger and forgiveness? Curiously watching

Remember the comment that the Apostle Paul made to those folks who were laying heavy loads of legalism on the backs of people?  You know, the people who were going around saying that you had to be circumcised first before you could become a Christ-follower? 

He said he wished that they’d go all the way and cut their own balls off.  Now THAT is ballsy.

MCW,

I can only speak for myself. As I stated earlier, it wouldn’t have been a “deal-breaker” for me, but I don’t think using the word was the right call.

Kudos to you on trying to reach out to an “enemy”. That’s so scriptural and so hard. But I think the tone and wording of the billboards isn’t the tone of reconciliation that you are trying to set.

But again, I don’t “condemn” anybody for it, I just think it was the wrong call.

Bless you all!