In a recent staff meeting we were discussing this same machine. I was concerned about what is “said” to those in attendance. But also realized that most people would use it for convenience.

Some people brought up the issue that Ann notes about credit usage. The response was that we promote responsible credit usage and teach financial responsibility as a church, but that we cannot be the police for how people use their credit. We, as a church, cannot stand there, or any place for that matter, and ask, “Are you using your credit responsibly?” They have to be responsible adults with their credit.

The whole credit issue is real.  I always find it hilarious that “insert well known ministries names here” end their show discussing the topics of stewardship and financial responsibility make all of their resources “available” for a donation using a credit card…

In terms of the church kiosks… I don’t think people who have financial diofficulties are the same ones who would be naturally motivated to “GIVE.” Their main concern is often how to avoid the embarrassment of not giving something when the plate goes by…

SO, how about adding a line to the screen that says…

PUSH HERE if you have placed your card in the machine to look like you’re giving but you can’t afford it… we will not debit any $ from your account but you will still receive a long receipt paper from this machine to impress those who may be (but aren’t really) watching?

Oh come on Eric - I’m sure you’re a big boy.  I’m just passionate about this.  Credit destroys lives and families.  The Church should have no part of it.

Jeff.. that’s hilarious! 

To tag on to that, that’s why we shouldn’t “pass-the-plate” at all.  We have boxes in the back of the sanctuary - if you give you give, no-one notices and there’s not the pass-the-plate pressure.  So it’s all good!

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!  Slow down guys.  This is really easy to solve.  Companies do it all the time.  You allow CheckCards but not credit cards.  Besides, if you’ll notice, this church doesn’t specifically state that they will allow Credit cards.  The passing reference was used to note how what they are doing in this church is similiar to what you would do in a store.  But it was the author’s insert, not a quote from the church itself.  Maybe they don’t.

I think it’s a pretty good idea if you make it only accept debit cards, which I guess is possible. I know a lot of folks that barely or never use checks anymore, because they bank on line. But they have a debit card.

btw, folks… NO more adhominem or needlessly rude comments. Period. Todd will spank you. And you’ll deserve it.

What in the world have we come to?  Giving our tithes on an ATM?  All in the name of making things easier for those who cannot remember to get cash.  Well, tithing isn’t anything new in the church that someone should forget.  If someone doesn’t have cash or cannot write a check, it must be because they left their heart at home as well as there cash or check.  What could possibly be next...personal card readers with private key pads for each person where hymnals used to be on the back of every pew?  Churches are becoming more and more like a business run by executives wearing pin stripe suits sitting around a nice conference table drinking starbucks coffee while discussing how to increase monies...all the while forgetting how much of that money could be sent overseas to build a new church where there isn’t one.

Someone said, “Well, tithing isn’t anything new in the church that someone should forget.  If someone doesn’t have cash or cannot write a check, it must be because they left their heart at home as well as there cash or check.”

I wonder if I go to a restaurant and leave my cash or check at home and pay with a debit card......if I left my hunger at home.

The varied responses of this thread are proof that some in the church would absolutely love to give through a kiosk, while others would curse it as the Beast in the church. It’s an interesting subject that intriques me because I’m a techno-buff. Yet, for the time being I’ll just continue to give through on-line banking. On time....every time.  to some that might even be a bit too much of a compromise. They’ll get used to it.

This is one subject that there is much room for personal choice and taste, without division.

Wow.  Ann referred to herself as a “dinosaur,” but I must be the true dinosaur.  My wife and I use credit cards (or etf) to pay almost all of our bills.  But we have this funny concept that we should pay off our credit cards at the end of every month (which we do except for last month when we were a day late to pay online and got charged the outrageous late fee that some get charged on a monthly basis).  So, I’m not sure that using a “credit card kiosk” is inherently encouraging your church members to “get into debt” for the benefit of the church.  What is imperative is good teaching about being “good stewards” and the wise use of the resources which the Lord gives us. 

I’m slow to go on the concept of giving online or at credit card kiosks or using an “e-tithe” (sorry Ann) for the simple reason that, as a dinosaur, I still have this nagging belief that “giving” is a part of “worship” and one way that we express that is by “giving” in a “worship service” (Yes, I preached two weeks ago that worship is not just the hour service, worship is all of life, Romans 12.1-2, etc., you don’t need to blog on that). 

Finally, so that I’m not accused of hypocrisy, I’m sure that one day our congregation will accept online giving, or e-tithes, in order to encourage those in our congregation who rarely deal in cash or checks (the preacher included) to give generously, sincerely, compassionately.  But I’ll be a little sad when we do.

Wow.  I had never “blogged” (is that what I’ve done) previously or responded to a blog previously.  My dinosaur score must have gone down half a point.

Blessings to all who read this humble submission.

Tim

I love technology.  I hate writing checks.  As a matter of fact, about the only time I write checks anymore are for church.  But I do agree with Tim that we don’t reflect enough on giving as a part of worship.  It’s often treated in the same way as announcements - ‘business’ or ‘housekeeping’ issues that we have to attend to.  At our church, we do occassionally try to instruct people to be more deliberate and meditative in their giving as worship.  We have an area set up for people to place their offerings.  We have scriptures posted around it that speak of our offering being as incense, etc.  I’m not opposed to the kiosks, really.  I just hate that it makes giving seem as cold and impersonal as that machine.  I guess we could light some incense and put in on top of the kiosks!  Ha!

John Burton… this is a little off topic, but you should try using cash only for a month or two and see the difference it makes.  Studies have shown that by merely switching from credit to cash people automatically spend 20% less on average just by the mere fact they can physically see the cash go out of their hands.  You are much less likely to impulse buy with cash than credit whether you intend to pay it off or not.  And the airline miles? Well which card pays you back 20%?? Just a thought! Blessings!

Over the last few weeks my life has definitely changed because of the Los Angeles Times “ATM for Jesus” article.  It is funny that we have been using giving kiosks at Stevens Creek for close to two years.  There have been a few local mentions on television and the newspaper, but nothing big.  In fact, the giving kiosks have quietly provided a way for people to donate to something they really believe in .... their local church. 

At Stevens Creek we teach “Good Sense” and do not encourage credit card use.  At the kiosk, you can donate with your debit or credit card.  Is that a problem?  It has not been.  In one recent month we have 64 families use the kiosk.  Sixty of the sixty-four users chose to donate with a debit card.  The others do it for U-Promise points.  If we felt like it was a problem, then we would configure the units to be debit only.

In fact, in several churches (Ginghamsburg United Methodist, Victory World Church, etc) they have opted to go with debit card only.  We understand the Bible and deeply appreciate people like Crown Ministries and Dave Ramsey.  Don’t ever think that we want to put people in bondage.  We preach freedom in Christ.

When I first began designing the software, I did it with Stevens Creek in mind.  After a few months, I realized that this technology has the potential to help resource the Kingdom of God.  I also know that this technology is NOT for every church, but it is being used to help some congregations reach their stewardship potential. 

I am amazed at what is happening.  By the end of the year there will be giving kiosks in GA, FL, SC, LA, AZ, CA, OR, OH, NY, and MA.  It’s kind of crazy.  Here’s the bottom line:  When the Lord prompts, follow his prompting.  Be blessed today.

-- Marty

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I can’t imagine anyone without a credit card nowadays......you need it almost everywhere...online purchase, applying for services, travelling...etc..