In the past few weeks I have been asked to use my Tax Stimulus Check (TSC) to buy a mattress, gamble, buy a vacation, get a new car, buy jewelery, get a camera, get an iPod get a new phone, get new tires for my car, get a new TV (flat screen), and much more. 

In all my conversations with people about this, no one I know has been offended by any of these requests.  Many I know have been enticed, myself included. 

In my church I asked for some help from the TSC and found a few people offended.  I think how weird that we would be offended by the church asking for help but not Circuit City. 

So while I understand it could feel tacky if approached wrong I don’t think i is tacky.  I say, if you really want to stimulate the economy, stimulate the economy of God’s Kingdom.  Use you TSC to make sure your church does not have a recession.  When the church faces a huge recession much eternal impact is at stake.

I’m gettin’ a wii fit with it, too!

Until Churches learn a little stewardship themselves I wouldn’t give them ANY money.

And yes, it is tacky to ask..........

Leonard,

I will admit upfront I am jaded concerning most Church “fund raising.” As a pastor I beat people to death over money. Give. Give. Give. Too often the Bible is used as a manipulative find raising tool.

It is tacky for this reason:

Before word of the checks.......did the Church plan to ask the congregation for money?

If not..........it is tacky........that when they get some........the Church is first in line with their hand out.

The congregation should be encouraged to pay down debt and then use what’s left (if any) to minister to people in need. Why does the Church need to be the conduit for acts of mercy and kindness. The more hands the money goes through the less effective the result.

Not that I have any opinions on this subject

On a personal note..........we spent our 1,200.00 check on paying bills, doing some yard work, and one dinner at a Mexican Restaurant. Now we are broke again.

Bruce

I used my stimulus check to pay off the second mortgage on our rental house so that we could increase our cashflow and increase our tithe to our church.  A short-term action with long-term benefits.  I did the same with my federal refund, too, in paying off other debt, and am giving all of my state refund as a tithe and to other Christian organizations.

I say this not to brag, because we’re still trying to get things better and out of debt, but as another possible recommendation for people looking to do something with their money from Uncle Sam.

--
CS

Ricky,

Your comment is, once again, ridiculous and contrary to scripture.

Bruce,

Overstated, definitely, but in light of all the comments Ricky’s made over the years, where he makes it clear that he doesn’t seem to think the local church as I understand it is a valid blblical principle, it is indeed ridiculous.

Your comments have some real merit. People look at us like we have two heads when we tell them that on our “big days”, Christmas and Easter, we don’t even take an offering, because we do NOT want visitors and guests to contribute to our church, only those who are dedicated to our mission and vision and are at least regular attenders.

We recently built a much-needed addition to house our very cramped (not any more) children’s ministries. We saved tens, maybe over a hundred thousand dollars by using a LOT of volunteer labor. We were better stewards of our resources AND the people of our church got to “build our church” in more ways than one. Can you imagine the sense of “ownership” (the good kind) they have of our church, its vision, its mission? We have a very small, very manageable mortgage on some of that addition that will most likely be paid off in less than one year.

A lot of us out here are being VERY good stewards, and paying my salary so that I can do what I do full-time is a GOOD use of those resources. We spend a LOT of money DIRECTLY on benevolence, too.

But… Asking people for a handout because you know they just got a 600-dollar check, though, is, imho, not the kind of stewardship that I think we want to teach.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.  Matthew 22:21

So, assuming you have rendered unto God what is God’s (tithe) and you have rendered unto Caesar what is Caesar’s (taxes), this TSC is a rebate back from Caesar on what you rendered unto him. 

Legalistically speaking, if you tithe on your gross (pre-tax) income you’ve already tithed on this money and it should all belong to you, but if you tithe on your after-tax take home income then you should at least give 10% of the TSC to the church as a tithe since this money was not counted in your tithe before.

Not I endorse thinking about things legalistically. 

As for the question posed; I think the fund set up by the church for charitable use in not only not tacky but actually a great idea.  The church asking people to donate their TSC to the church’s capital campaign seems a little tacky to me.  And trying to justify it, saying it would double as an investment in the local market, is really tacky to me.  I don’t think the church should be trying to justify or rationalize giving to the church on secular grounds.

Bruce,
I am not saying you love money and I apologize if that is what I communicated.  what I am saying is you are jaded (you admitted this already) and that jaded experience is not helping you.  You come across here as one who is wounded still. 

Your sweeping statements about the church are just that.  They hold little weight behind the jaded tone.  I am sad for this. 

No psychoanalysis, no pity, just sadness.  That all.

Bruce,

I have read your blog and remember you from before as well.  Can see you are a cynic and jaded, I am not.  I do concede to you that have some insight but it is jaded.  I have literally preached all over this country and all over my city and in many countries of the world.  I am not naive too the abuses churches have made. 

Your cynicism has caused you to chide, complain, criticize and castigate pastors and leaders.  It is not objective and considering there are several hundred thousand churches in this world your experience is not a standard I can say is as thorough as you, and because of your self admitted cynicism and jaded view, I would not be wise in trusting it either. 

Our little church plant here has sent well over 100,000 to do great things in this world.  Tsunami Relief, Hurricane Relief, mobile clinic and a base clinic in Kashmir India, Building Sewing Centers for abused women, Providing several thousand injections to stop HIV from being transmitted form mother to child just to name a few.  We have help start other churches and built churches in other countries of the world and here at home we see people come to Christ nearly every week.  We have rehabs inner city schools, provide care for teachers and taken on projects for families in crisis (loss of a child, serious health issues etc.)

Your cynicism and sweeping accusations are not accurate about us and about hundreds upon hundreds of churches I know personally.

Now reading a blog that’s a good way to get to know someone

Look, I’ll grant that you see me a certain way because of how I write. I suspect your judgment is inaccurate, but I will allow that you see me in that light.

I also know that my experiences are that..........mine. On what other experiences would you like me to judge? My point is, I have a larger pool to judge from than many. That doesn’t make my judgments infallible, but they shouldn’t be dismissed (as you are doing) either.

Everyone can give their anecdotal stories. Great. Good stuff. But, if you can’t see that Evangelicalism, as a whole, is in bad shape, and that it is money obsessed, then there is no way for us to have a fruitful discussion. You see a little sickness here and there, I see a diseased body in need of a resurrection.

You mention hundreds and hundreds of Churches. Great. Unfortunately.......there are tens of thousands of Churches. Their inaction and fatness far outweigh the work of the hundreds.

Tomorrow, I will read the Religion Page in our local paper. What will I find? Will I read of a Church giving 90% of their budget to outreach? Will I read of large amounts of money being sent for relief in China or Myanmar? Will I read about Churches sharing their buildings with other denominations or merging together to be more financially effective?

No of course not. I will read of dozens of little sectarian groups doing their “religion as usual stuff.” Dinners. Programs. Seminars. VBS. Concerts. Revivals. (anything that keeps what we are doing in the Church house)

Near where I live a Church is building a fellowship hall. Not sure where the money came from.......doesn’t matter. When I drive by there on Sunday there are 3-5 cars in the parking lot.  No need for a fellowship hall..........but.......need is not how we judge things..........we want.........and so we do. This is repeated all over the place. Instead of giving the money, away we spend it on the perpetuation of the Church structure and system.

This is my last comment here. I realize I sound a bit like I am “defending” self (and I am a bit) but I want to make sure that my point is understood.

Ok, I know I am hopping in late and that I have been lurking and watching the exchange, but I need to respond to some things being said…

Bruce, Jud, Ricky…

It sounds like your issue is not with churches handling money, but with the command of God regarding tithing. If you are not a part of a local church, not obeying scripture as to what God wants you to do with your money, than why are you arguing with people who are?

It seems to me that you need to speak with the Lord about your belief in tithing, and how the church uses tithes to further the Kingdom.

I am troubled that it is so easy for you to tell people how they should handle tithes, or how they miss-handle them or even special offerings, and yet you do not offer yourself.

Bruce,

You write about a church that is putting up a fellowship hall, and you say that as you “drive by” you only see 5-6 cars in the lot and assume that means no need for a fellowship hall. You say that after ranting about how Leonard can’t possibly know anything about from exchanging with you here and your comments on a blog.

You are basically saying it is ok to tell someone not to judge with only some info if incomplete info, and that you, however are allowed to judge an entire church based on a drive by. I surmise that you have never even set foot in the church you are judging.

Hi Kettle, this is the Pot...Your Black.

Oh and Jud,
What exactly is the money tradition?

-E

What I mean is the thrust of the Church Growth Movement is to separate the church from tradition (I have no problem with the Church being separated from extra Biblical tradition) in order to appeal to the sensibilities and perceptions of the culture. But uhuh… nope… not the one about money and how much of it the church needs/ wants. At least the perception if you don’t believe the church has that problem.

Probably the biggest problem most of my “unchurched” neighbors have with the church is over the issue of MONEY.

I came out of several mega type churches from the CG model. Each had budgets in the millions and almost all of that was tied up in SALARIES, BUILDINGS, MARKETING and AQUISITIONS.

That my friends is not called stewardship… that is called a franchise.

You can’t talk about the BLOOD, repentance or even mention the Book of Revelation (to name a few) out of concern for the sensitivity of the “seeker” but as I said before the need of BIG money to operate such behemoths is as I said before… the sacred cow.

Oh, and Church Growth? What about the fastest growing church in the World.... The underground church in China. Much of the credit goes to the humility and efficiency of the BI-VO pastor. And the idea that Church doesn’t have to be MASSIVE or tricked out to change the World.