HI EVERYONE!

This is Janet. I have read EVERY word of every comment and am so grateful for your insights and prayers. I think everyone has had something to say that has touched my heart and is beneficial.

Yes, there are two sides to every “issue” and ya know--I’d kind of like to hear “their” side as well. I was never really told much. The only thing the resignation letter given to me said is “...it is obvious that the direction of (name of Church) is different than yours. Therefore, (name of Church) is terminating your employment effective immediately.” How’s that for a reason?

No, I haven’t been perfect in the job/ministry and never claimed to be. The staff and church know that I have been under lots of stress for the last 5-6 years because: I had to have sudden gall bladder surgery after a year of undiagnosed pain; after this surgery I had a blood clot in my leg that traveled to my lung and I had to be hospitalized twice in the same month for it (lots of people die from this); my Dad was diagnosed with colon cancer that metastasized to the liver twice and the 4 chemo treatments caused another blockage that required emergency surgery on Father’s Day; my mother had blood poisoning and home health care while Dad was in the hospital (I’m an only child and am single, so there’s not a lot of family able to help there); my grandmother and cousin died within 2 months of each other; I broke my foot (and took children to camp anyway); I had pneumonia; my uncle died of lung cancer and a high school friend was killed in a car accident the same day; I am going through menopause and cannot take hormones to help with those problems due to the blood clot in my lung; another uncle got Guillian-Barr syndrome and was hospitalized as a quadraplegic for 4 months in 1999 & is just now able to walk a little bit without a walker; my Dad went into hospice care in April 2004 and was only given 1 to 4 months to live; etc.
All of that to say this--I came to work every day that I physically could and many days when I probably should not have according to the doctors. I gave it my all even when I didn’t have much left to give. The staff knew the extreme circumstances I was going through and yet the only time a prayer was prayed with me was when I was in the hospital or they came to my Dad’s hospital room and prayed--I’m grateful for those prayers. Nothing in the office was even mentioned by the staff when my Dad miraculously was healed of the cancerous liver lesions and was dismissed from hospice care--we got this news a few days before I was fired and I know that the staff knew about it.

Because of all that I’ve been through, on September 1, I asked for a leave of absence for 1 semester from one of my VOLUNTEER responsibilities that 2 members of the staff assumed was in my written job description. When I kindly showed them in the written job description that it was NOT a part of it is when “the turning point” came. I told them that I was fulfilling my job description and that I just needed a break for a little while. The next day I was fired. Again--just my side of it--but now you know what I know regarding “their” actions.

I DID go to a lawyer Sept. 7 simply to learn what my rights are. I had asked the administrator on the day I was fired (Sept. 2) for a copy of my personnel file and the employee handbook. He told me that I already had it and that he didn’t. I did not have it or I would not have asked for it. Later that day I left a voice mail message with him and his secretary. One time I sent an e-mail to try to retrieve the information that I had a legal right to obtain. I sent 2 certified letters with return receipt requested with no response from him (except for the returned receipts) until the second letter where I mentioned that I had contacted a lawyer. THAT got his attention and subsequently the chair of the personnel committee (who is a lawyer) wrote me a letter. That same week I received what I had kindly and consistently asked for.

For the person who saw a “red flag” in what I originally wrote--thank you for noticing that. The reason that I apologized and asked forgiveness is because I thought that perhaps I indeed had done something horrible that needed to be forgiven. I couldn’t think what it would be, but I thought perhaps by apologizing “for anything I’ve done to offend you” I would be told. This apology was sincere on my part and also an attempt to find out what I could have possibly done to prompt such suddenly harsh action. I was told that I had yelled at someone and “cut people off.” When I asked who it was that I had yelled at and what I had said, I was not given an answer. (That’s because I didn’t yell at anyone.) It IS possible that I “cut someone off” when I spoke to them and so I again asked who it was and what I said so that I could go to the person and apologize to them and ask their forgiveness. No answer was given to me again. I am still willing to go to anyone that I have offended and ask their forgiveness. Holy Spirit has not shown me anyone to whom I should go as of today.

If you have read this far, congratulations! And, THANK YOU to everyone who has shared and is praying.

Because of Jesus,
Janet

Dear Janet,

I had almost the identical thing happen to me although I had been with the ministry for only 10 months. The Board had brought me in to make MAJOR changes and the “reasons” they gave for termination were trivial. (And did not constitute ‘just cause according to an attorny.) I really don’t know why and in addition to what you describe, I was told not to be back on the premises without an appointment! The didn’t think to ask for my company credit card, so I suppose I could’ve been vindictive, but that is beneath me, so I turned it in with my keys the day I left.

Ken, I thank you for your response, esp. the words about speaking the truth in love. I decided I had done nothing wrong, I had done a good job for the organization and had nothing to hide. That is what I wrote in the letter wherein I refused the severance package they offered. (I got $4,000 more in unemployment than they offered, by the way.)

Janet, this seems to be the new style of dismissing employees and it had infultrated the church. My basic objection is that they did not discuss any problems,give me a warning or probation oreven follow their own policy as far as a dismissal process. I think this is fundementally dishonest and wrong.

But they are the board and I am without a job. I guess I was lucky in that I had worked as a consultant as well as an administrator and I had had some experience with ambiguity and ‘flux’ in employment.

What can I tell you? Well, Ken is right about not becoming isolated. You do not have to be negative towards your church/employers even as you chose to affirm yourself and your gifts. If you need to rant and cry, go to a friend who will keep your confidence or go to a counselor. Look for one with a sliding fee scale.

As far as insurance, you won’t need it if you stay healthy and it is always in your best interest to do so. Start wakling with friends, join a class at the Y ($35 is cheap. (This is also a gret help for your mental health and general mood). Get a part-time job or volunteer.

God is leading you through a passage to something deeper and greater. Don’t turn inward, go FORWARD! There’s some great books and tapes on confidence and finding your calling. Visit the library.

You are not alone. Everyone goes through hard times, whether it is a divorce or a sick child. Remember, our ultimate security for everything- this life and the next- is God.

Since I was fired I recorded a CD with a group I sing with and went back to work on a thesis to complete an M.A. Today I got a call from a group that interviewed me this week. The lady was a little flustered to find out I was fired from my last job. I told her the truth and gave her phone numbers to talk to others. (My former employer is not responding to inquiries- they didn’t even explain to my staff! I was Executive Director. It was as if I never existed.) The truth can’t hurt me (or you) and if a prospective employer wants to believe the worst when I will talk and the other side won’t- well, I figure I wouldn’t be happy working with people like that anyhow.

So pray. I recommend you start and end every day by praising and thanking God for all the good things and blessing you DO have in your life. Then mention you need a job and you know GOd’s working on it.

One final thought: If you go more than 6 months without any employment, consider volunteering with one of your church’s mission or volunteer program. They will pay basic expenses, it would probably be a terrific experience and it is one way to get back in the employment stream and put questions about “your last job” in the background.

Far from the end of the world, this is the opening of a new stage of your life. I will say a prayer for you and hope you will do the same for me.

In His Peace,

Jude Thompson

Hey, I’ve experienced being treated poorly by a pastor first-hand.  I’m convinced many churches are far worse than secular jobs in how they hire and fire.  However, in my case, where my wife was 8 months pregnant during the awful conflict, the Lord has blessed us immensely through secular employment and bi-vocational ministry.  Thank God you are single, bro.  With a family, it’s even more scary.  You were done wrong and that administrator should be held accountable.  And, he will-- whether it be by man and/or God.  God doesn’t like his little ones to be hurt.  And, vengeance belongs to God.  Pray, love, and forgive, and you will come through the bitterness your probably are feeling.  The anger still comes and goes for me, but God has been so miracuously faithful!!!

Praying for you,
Eric

Re: Injustice in the church.
About 7 yeras ago my wife and i pioneered a new work for a denominational church, suddenly my wife decided that she no longer wanted to be part of the denomination and left to go to an independent church 30 miles away, reluctantly I followed. leaving the ministry.
We stayed in that church for 6 years, both of us teaching in their state accredited Bible school.
There had been numerous sexual problems in the church, the worship leader, a woman in her 50’s sleeping with one of the worship team teenagers, her husband knew about this but was ‘happy for his wife. She was removed from fellowship but the young man was allowed to continue; The children’s pastor, a young single woman in her 20’s having a sexual relationship with the church secretary’s daughter, she was removed from childrens pastor but appointed Director of Evangelism; there is more but you get the picture.
Last July my wife walked into the house and told me to get out, there had been no warning, everything had seemed fine. We met with the pastors whoo said they had talked to her but could not understand her reasoning, all she would say is, “I’m know I’m wrong but God will forgive me” the bottom line being that they agreed with her and simple told me that although there was no scriptural basis for her decision, she had made her mind up and that I needed to get on with my life. That was the only counceling I ever got from them.
A couple of weeks later I called the Bible school, the same pastors were running that, and told them I could not teach class that evening because I was sick, the first day that I had missed in 6 years, I was told if I couldn’t get in that night don’t bother to come at all we’ll give the class to someone else. I was extremly hurt and immediatley resigned from the church and the school. The divorce was finalized in February and my ex. has been allowed to continue on the worship team and teaching in the Bible school.
I discovered that she and another pastor, female had been emailing each other on a regular basis, this pastor sent my ex. a dozen roses to the housse before I moved out, and when the divorce was finalized they went away together to an hotel for the weekend, she is still in ministry in the church as well.
Incidentally, the pastor himself was in court on 5 charges of sexual misconducted, 4 were aquitted on technicalities but he was found guilty on one charge and is now on the sexual offenders register. He founded the church so, while there is a board, he has the power to veto even if the rest of the board are 100% unanimous.
I have never, ever been so hurt in my life, 22 years of marriage gone, with the blessing of the church. And the people that I should have been able to turn to for help failed to provide it. They are also divorced and remarried before they started this ministry so divorce was no big deal.
God has been the only one that I could turn to, but it is not easy. Last week I cried, and I know that there will be other weeks like it too. But I have discovered that the one thing that brings me through is the same desire that Paul had in Phil.3.10, “That I might know Him....”

Janet and the church have suffered in this experience, for sure. 

As church administrators, pastors, board members, etc., part of our responsibility is to be sure policies and procedures are in place to properly evaluate it’s employees on a regular basis.  In doing so, a person who receives an honest evaluation containing criticism of their work, would (or should) not be surprised if they are terminated when they do not turn around their performance to meet the expectations of the employer. 

Even if this state is an “at will” state (where an employee may be terminated at the will of the employer for any reason or no reason at all), for an employee of significant tenure (10 years) with a history of increases in pay, etc., should not be terminated abruptly, absent some sort of progressive discipline.

May I suggest to all executive pastors or church administrators who may be responsibile for the hiring and firing of employees, to take a course somewhere on progressive disciplinary procedures.  Some law firm administrators may be willing to spend some time with you, to help you understand this. 

Short of apprpriate handling of terminations, even a church is subjecting itself to extensive and expensive wrongful termination law suits.  A shame, but very factual.

I know I haven’t addressed this person’s heartaches, as most of those posting before me have, but I wish to wave a very very red flag to churches to “do all things in decency and in order.”

LARRY

I was just terminated this last Sunday.  I served as pastor for nearly a year.  There was no moral failure, illegal or unethical conduct on my part.  I too had been warned that the church had a “history.” I have learned to get a written contract that stipulates mediation before any termination and a reasonable severance package to include insurance if the termination is for other than illegal, immoral, or unethical conduct (i.e. leadership style or personality issues).  Once upon a time, such a “contract” was verbal or merely understood but today a written contract is a must.

There seem to be many people out there that don’t understand that in addition to the models of compassion and justice described in the Bible that we should always strive to use to resolve injustice and conflict, we are also confronted to live up to the standards and requirements of our civil society when it comes to employment issues like hiring and firing.  Don’t know if anyone noticed, but, for every response that appealed to using a Matthew 11 approach, there were just as many recommending use of secular civil justice of one sort or another.  Even Janet, when seeing that what she perceived to be a truly Christian approach to have failed her, she checked out her legal rights.  You really can’t have it both ways and expect good things to result.  The Bible tells us both explicitly and through illustrations galor that the blameless actions of a just person will shame the unjust into repentence IF we are all agreed to hold to the same set of operating instructions.  (My goodness, I was appalled at the writer who identified himself as “Pastor” Bobby calling a Christian brother he doesn’t know, based on a one sided report calling the administrator a “jerk.” I’ll bet that brought applause from the angels!) I can only imagine that if Janet is truly honest with herself about what happened (none of us will ever be able to know this is the case, because even pages of explanations on a weblog can mask what she alone knows and is convicted of in her heart by the Holy Spirit), has reported the truth to those in authority, and is contrite of heart, that the administrator will not be able to withstand the conviction of his wrongdoing and the pressure of those wise judges in that church’s leadership whose responsibility it will be to mediate the situation.  Obviously, this process will have similar integrity going the other direction too if the administrator is blameless in the incident.  Most likely there will be conviction of wrongdoing, miscommunication, etc. enough to go around . . . meaning they should all be on their knees.  We must also remember that serving perfect justice is what only a perfect God can do, especially if we err from his operating instructions about how we’re going to live in this fallen world.

My advice to Janet is to move on, learn from the experience, as much as it is your ability, live a blameless life and love those who persecute you.  By this, people will know that we serve a different master.  Believe me, having been on the administrator’s side of the table, he will be just as convicted of his shortcomings and hopefully will have learned from the experience.  Maybe someday someone else under his care will receive the grace learned from his handling of this incident.  That seems to be how God works, from all that I’ve read.

My wife is upset that our church pays people to clean the church and mow the yard, but hasn’t offered to pay me for the hours I spend each week on multi-media presentations. I basically created the position and volunteered to fill it, so Luke 17:10 “I am but an unworthy servant. I am only doing my duty”. But it still hurts each Christmas when I don’t even get a gift or card for my service. Having read all these postings, though, has shown me that I should feel grateful that I am not being paid. This way they can’t fire me and I probably have more freedom in what I do and don’t do than if they felt they could criticise or make suggestions all the time.
We are between pastors partially because the trustees paid the former pastor (who was great) peanuts because he had a good job. When his job changed they were only willing to help him temporarily until he and his wife found other jobs. This has led to rather uncomfortable discussions in the search committee. Why do trustees think the Will of God is keeping a big church bank account?  Maybe I’m wrong, but I would rather see the money being used to further His Kingdom.

My Dear Sister:
I am a baptist preacher who went through something very similar with The Salvation Army just resently.  Except I was not as fortunate as you.  However, I got great letters of recommendations and lots of support from my coworkers and officers.

Here is my comment: Colossian 3:25 “If any man does wrong he shall receive of the Lord for the wrong he has done and God is not a respector of persons”.

A matter of fact read the entire chapter. Don’t swet it, you just suffered some wrong for Christ sakes. Its his business to teach and to chastise.  Forbear and forgive and keep on moving and do not punish others for the wrong of a few.

The Salvation Army allowed me to preach and to do a funeral while employed and I simply thanked them for the opportunity.  However, I could not make my rent and I am still trying to pull it together. I do not reflect on the wrong they did to me, just reflect on all the poor people I was able to help while I was there.  I am still getting calls from a girl named Fran whom I help to purchase a crib for her new born.

In Christ a little more is expected of us. I can understand why you never told anyone because you did not want to cause discord between the church and the other employees. I’ve been there.  But know this, there is another job Jesus has in store for you and remember, Its Jesus Christ you serve and not man.

I have already revealed some of my business for your comfort and named names. Now, we who are fellow Christians in That Same Body will pray for you and with you. Suffer long as Christ suffered Long for you. 

In His Love,
Rev. Carole Stallings

Before I get started,I do agree that churches have become too business oriented, and forget the divine calling.

Now with that said…

Sin is sin, correct?  And the blood that all of us claim clears away the sin, right?

I had a situation where i was asked to leave, and it was due to a moral failing.  An addiction that I had been struggling with for years re-appeared in my life.  Aren’t we all one decision away from failing?  How should the church react in these situations?  Isn’t GRACE the answer.  I have repented, rejoiced in restoration and am mournful of what happened.  The pastor led the elder body to “put me out of the discussion” for three years.

Right now my wife and I are trying to meet with the elder board, as it has been three years.  While I am no longer interested, or called for that matter, to their worship ministries, the hateful way that they treated us needs to be addressed.  There is a new elder body, and a new opporunity to teach about grace.  So God has called my wife and me to stand up in this matter.  Sometimes it is important to stand on the truth, and speak what is right and true.

It has been three years, and a hot three years it has been.  I have been through the refiner’s fire, and even after personally deciding that I would never work in the ministry full time again, God is calling.

So now we wait for God’s place for us, but in the meantime, we are seeking reconciliation from the church body that we miss.

This who dialogue has really been encouraging to me. I thought I was alone, but this lets me know that people being fired from ministry is not something new.  I was only a volunteer and I was fired, but it hurt just the same.  Of course, I felt it was unjust because leadership never stated their complaints, they just let the axe fall.  I was never given the opportunity to do what I felt needed to be done, but they replaced me with one of their family members and gave that person free reign to get the job done, if I had had 10% of the support they gave to their family member, I would have succeeded as well, but it seemed to me that they had that person in mind from the very beginning and were waiting for me to mess up so they could have a reason to put her in position, which they did.

The only thing I do is read Genesis.  It is filled with portraits of injustice and how God uses injustices to bring us to where we need to be.

Look at Joseph who was accused by Potiphar’s wife and thrown into prison.  He was never given a fair trial, but ended up in a high place.

Look at Hagar and Ismael.  Hagar only did what Sarah told her to do and was later despised and thrown out of the camp, but god promised her a mighty nation through her son Ishmael.

Look at Esau and Jacob, how Jacob stole Esau’s birthright but in the end Jacob came back to him bringing gifts and bowing before him.

So many other instances, these passages and reading what happened to Janet and what you sisters and brothers have to say helps me, my prayer is that leadership will adhere to the principles and direction of the holy spirit when confronted with these situations and never let ambition, nepotism or anything else to disrupt and deter the plan God has for his people in ministry.

Some may say that church is a business, true, in this day of megachurches it has become so, but each minister and leader is accountable to God for how they sheppherd the people and that is primary.  Business should never be more important than the people whom God has charged them with.

God is faithful and will bring forth his purpose in us.