The problem with this logic is idea is this: Did Christ wait to die for us until we understand what he did. No. Christ died for us while we still hate him. We are forgiven. It’s a question of whether we except the forgiveness or not.

I agree with the writer’s conclusions.

However, I always hasten to add that we must vigilantly guard ourselves from developing a bitter, vengeful, grudge-holding attitude, and we must, as our Father God does, maintain a sincere attitude of LOVE for our enemies, with a disposition, desire and willingness to forgive, if at all possible.

With regard to Jesus’ atoning sacrifice, nowhere in Scripture is this most holy of all events ever said to effect a sort of automatic forgiveness, in which repentance and faith in the atonement is not required. Also, nowhere in Scripture is Christ’s atoning death ever referred to as payment of a debt. “Ransom,” yes, “debt,” no.

If Christ’s death was in fact a “payment of debt,” and if, as Scripture plainly says, his death was for “every man” and “for the sins of the whole world,” then sheer universalism necessarily follows. This is a plain fact of logic.

If on the other hand, we stay with the scriptural metaphor of Christ’s death being a “ransom/redemption price,” with the benefits of that ransom payment being entered into by faith on the part of each individual believer, then the difficulty is removed.

Are you washed in the blood?

Sincerely,

John

I think Jesus expressed a sincere DESIRE of His (and of God’s) from the Cross, when He said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” At the very most, this statement could mean they were forgiven for this particular act on account of their ignorance, but that would not mean that all their other (and our other) sins are forgiven in this way.

About keeping no record of wrongs, the way I practice this is (at the risk of sounding like a smart-aleck) is to simply keep no record of wrongs. That doesn’t mean I forgive those wrongs, it just means I consciously make a point NOT to keep track of them, and if someone were to come to me and ask forgiveness, I would certainly give it.

John

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. We may be wronged by someone who has no understanding of Christian principles and sincerely believe they acted rightly in a worldly manner such as manipulating their place into the bosses favor by undercutting those around him.  He will never apologize and yet we must pray for and love him as Christ commands us to and forgive him.  Early in a Christian’s walk, sometimes truth in it’s fullness {which we are all still getting]is not known and sin against God unknowingly and yet he is still made clean by Christ’s blood. So, God forgives us and He wants us to forgive like Him so I believe scripture wants us to forgive even if the offending party does not want to apologize out of ignorance on their part.

Yes, we have to repent. But repentence is NOT what saves us. The work is done by Christ. And that work is done, weather or not we accept it.

God loved us while we were still sinners. He didn’t wait to go to the cross untill we understood about him. He went there and said “Here is my forgivness, waiting for you to accpet it.” And that is the model we are to follow as Christians.

As Christians, we are not allowed to hold the gruge and be angry when we are wronger. We are the ones that are the peacemakers. The ones who are the be light and salt. We are not to be like the rest of the world standing in the corner saying “He has to say sorry first.”

Even if I forgive someone who has wronged me, the relationship is not restored if withhold their accpetence of the forgivness. It’s the same with God and us. He has forgiven us. We need now to come to Him, in humbleness and repentance, excpet that forgivness, and show we are sorry for what we have done with our lifes.

If biblical forgiveness is dependent on the repentance of the offender, does this mean that you can never forgive someone who has sinned against you and has passed away before the issue was resovlved?  This would be very damaging to the survivors as it would set the stage for bitterness, anger and a sense of bondage to the sinner. Also, does this mean we would lose our salvation if we passed away before being able to repent of a current sin such as pride, arrogance, impatience, unjustified anger at the driver in front of us as you make it sound like forgiveness would be dependent on the repentance of the sinner?

Renee-

I agree with everything you said, and I thank you for sharring it. My problems what what was said in this article comes from the author Stating that God is withhould his forgivness until some repents. And that we are to do that same.

“These and other verses make it clear that God’s forgiveness is conditional on a person’s repentant heart.  To argue otherwise, of course, would be to undercut the gospel and preach a universalism (everyone’s saved no matter what) which the Scriptures know nothing of.  Accordingly, since we are to forgive others as God in Christ forgives us, repentance must precede forgiveness.”

This is very flawed. God’s forgivness is universal in the sense that it is for everyone. Does it mean that everyone will be saved. No. Why not? Because not everyone chooses to accept that forgivness and make themselves right with God.

Also, if repentance is needed for forgivness- it is no longer a “free gift” (Romans 6:23.) There is now a cost.

In discussions about this, it has been my experience that people generally confuse the emotional definition of “unforgiveness” with the LEGAL definition of it (like forgiving something that is owed you). No one, as far as I can tell, has said that we ever are justified in “harboring unforgiveness,” if by that you mean bitterness, spite, anger, vengefulness, etc. These things are what are covered in simply walking in love, as Christ loved us. If we truly are of the right mindset (minding the Spirit), we will not harbor “unforgiveness” emotionally speaking.

However, keeping our hearts pure does not mean we have to “just forgive” unconditionally, *legally* speaking. We are not to ever hold grudges, bitterness, and the like (the emotional state generally, but erroneously, referred to as “unforgiveness.")

Also, I would sincerely like to see even one clear reference in Scripture that says everyone is ALREADY forgiven by God, they just need to accept it. I’ve never been able to find such a statement in all of the Bible.

Blessings,

John E

I posted this march 24 and since it applies I wanted to share it with you all.

Should the Bestowal of Forgiveness be Conditional, Based on the Repentance of the Offender?

The question here takes in two different areas of forgiveness. Let me explain. When a person commits an offense against a person he also commits an offense against the God of Heaven. When the offense occurs the person or persons hurt by the offense now come under spiritual attack and their emotions are engaged in a given emotional response that can cause them physical harm. With the understanding that by keeping a hurt to oneself can cause you physical harm, the persons offended should forgive the offender even if that person is unrepentant. This obedience to God’s command to forgive releases those injured from the bondage of bitterness, anger, and hate, and frees them from the spiritual attack against their emotions that if unresolved can lead to physical harm like stress, high blood pressure, anxiety, etcetera. So the answer to the question “Should the Bestowal of Forgiveness be conditional, Based on the repentance of the offender” is No for the person who is hurt. Those offended should always forgive the offender in obedience to God.

Now to address the second area of forgiveness that this question takes in, is the area of spiritual forgiveness. If the person who comments the offense against another person although forgiven by those he hurt, the perpetrator of the offense still remains unforgiven by God until he repents. So in this part of the situation the answer is yes to the question “Should the Bestowal of Forgiveness be conditional, Based on the repentance of the offender”, which is a response that only the God of Heaven can take and not those offended.