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“Conflict? Ask Ken”: When Hiring a Pastor Gets Ugly

Orginally published on Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 3:00 AM
by Todd Rhoades

Today I’m happy to premiere a new weekly feature here on the blog called "Conflict? Connect with Ken", featuring Ken Newberger, an experienced church conflict resolution specialist. Each week Ken will tackle a new question regarding problems and conflicts that are happening in churches across the country. (At the end of today’s blog you can find out how to submit your confidential "Ask Ken" question. Here’s our first question...Dear Ken,

Fighting has erupted over the election of a new pastor. We are a Baptist church and our bylaws require a 75% majority vote to call a new minister. For the past six months, the bylaws have been routinely ignored by the vocal minority until last night when, at a congregational meeting, the current candidate received 74.3% vote. Then you would have thought that the bylaws were written in stone along side the Ten Commandments. Fisticuffs broke out. Help!

North Carolina ---

North Carolina,

In just a few sentences you have highlighted deep problems. The fact that the bylaws are used only when it serves one side or the other tells me that the 'fight' is not about the candidate, but about control. When people can make up the rules as they go, a steady stream of conflict and behind-the-scene power plays inevitably follow. The focus has to change from struggling over a specific outcome to finding agreement on process. By way of analogy, the reason why our country got through the 2000 presidential election unscathed is because there was a recognizable process in place to resolve the issues. Our country did not devolve into civil war, as other nations under similar circumstances have, because the citizenry considered the process legitimate whether they agreed with the outcome or not.

The fact that fisticuffs broke out can be made to work in the church's favor. Everyone is undoubtedly in agreement that a line was crossed that should not have been. Recognizing that your church is in trouble may be the only thing that all sides agree upon. Given that this conflict has engulfed the entire church, including leadership, the board should call upon the services of a skilled congregational conflict resolution mediator / facilitator. A mediator can help the parties come to agreement on the steps that will guide the pastoral selection process from beginning to end. Happily, if accord is reached on this level, few, if any, will have a legitimate complaint regarding the outcome and the candidate who is selected. Moreover, a foundation will be built upon which both sides can begin to constructively resolve their other differences.

Ken

Upon Reflection . . .

After reading your comments on this subject, here are some follow-up comments from Ken:

Much of the discussion centered around the voting percentage that a candidate should receive when starting in a new church. Many thought that nothing less than a 100% vote was acceptable. Marta Allison (10/7/04, 3:33 pm) told of the church where her husband was called with 99% of the vote. But it turned out that the 1% against had a lot of influence in the church and local Christian community and made our lives and ministry a living hell. The person managed to influence a good part of the church members against us and the result was a church split.? On the other hand, Randy (10/7/04, 09:31 pm) told of his church?s present Pastor who received a 61% majority vote, providing this description: ?The church was falling apart, it had gone down from 600 members to 400. When he accepted the call, I thought this will never last. I was so wrong. The church grew in seven years to 6000 members. I think any candidate better know what the Lord is saying first, then worry about men and their votes.? One of the most incredible accounts came from Kenny Brown (10/7/04, 11:03 pm). He insisted on obtaining a 100% vote of confidence which he received three times ? before, during, and at the end of a church split centering around his vision for the church! You?ll need to read this amazing story for yourself.

Apart from the discussion of percentages, an underlying premise to the majority of the postings is that an incoming pastor needs strong and solid support by the new church. Paul (10/7/04, 3:09 pm) provided sound practical reasoning. Referring to the case under discussion which required a 75% majority before calling a new pastor, he wrote, ?25% against you being the pastor could easily become 50% or more if you make a decision that requires some change to the "norm". 90% acceptance or more would be ideal. I wouldn't settle for anything less.?

LESSONS

By way of analogy, a general lesson to be drawn from the postings is if you are inevitably going to lose chips of good will after the honeymoon period is over, make sure you have an abundant supply to start with to stay in the game.

Let me add a second. Given that problems will eventually surface, a key question that should be asked during the candidating process is, ?when problems arise, how does this church typically handle them ? both within the congregation and the board?? Establishing agreement on how you will resolve difficulties before they arise will make their resolution all the more likely.

-----

Ken Newberger, an experienced church conflict resolution specialist, earned his Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary, has ten years senior pastoral experience, and is in the dissertation phase for his Ph.D. in Conflict Analysis and Resolution at Nova Southeastern University, one of only two accredited doctoral programs of its kind in the United States. If your church needs individualized help, please visit Ken's website or call 301-253-8877.

To submit a question and connect with Ken, click here.

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TRACKBACKS: (0) There are 41 Comments:

Posted by Bill Moore

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 5:40 PM

Easy answer: It’s the same thing that happens at about 90% of ALL baptist churches, and it’s because they run their churches like a DEMOCRACY. The Church of Jesus Christ was never meant to be ran that way. The Church is a THEOCRACY. Having people in the audience, most of who don’t have a clue how church leadership works, make their votes count on how the body is supposed to be handled is horsepoop!
In a THEOCRACY you have a Pastor, THE HEAD, and you have a Board & Deacons that decide and run the majority of the affairs of the church.
I once visited a baptist church in bridgeport, texas on a wednesday night and they happened to be in a BUSINESS MEETING.
To make a long story short, I thought a stinking brawl was going to break out on whether or not the Youth would be allowed to spend their own money they raised to purchase a couple of $80 microphones for the youth dept. It was INSANE! And uncalled for!
The poorpastor was so cowed-down he couldn’t even get a word in edgewise for all the bickering hollering and hooting.
LESSON TO MY BAPTISTSBRO’S: CAN THE VOTING PROCESS on every thing that goes on in the church! Let your Pastor, Board and Deacons do the function God’s called them to do!
Many a Church-Split could have been avoided if they ran things this way...Bill
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 6:22 PM

Praise God,
I personally believe the church has erred to begin with in the way they choose their pastor. The church needs to go into prayer and fasting for a period of time, seek the face of the Lord and wait for His leadership guidance before any deliberation. Bear in mind this is a Spiritual Matter that is going to affect souls in the church and the bedrock of the church.
If I were the Pastor in question, I will not take up the job responsibility at the church. For a pastor to work in a church it has to be 100% acceptance.
God Bless
Called, Appointed and Anointed Servant of God
Robert Akin-Akinrimisi (Pastor)
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 6:57 PM

For all who contest the idea of voting for a pastor - I wonder how the “vote” went when the disciples “cast lots” to name Matthias as Judas’ replacement?
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 9:32 PM

Our present Pastor received a 61% majority. The church was falling apart, it had gone down from 600 members to 400. When he accepted the call, I thought this will never last. I was so wrong, the church grew in seven years to 6000 members. I think any candidate better know what the Lord is saying first, then worry about men and their votes.
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 11:02 PM

North Carolina,

Ken’s counsel is the greatest wisdom aside from repentance and prayer that has been offered here. Your fellowship is definitely in need of a trained and anointed mediator. We really should not be shocked that such things happen. Reaping and sewing are pretty locked in principles you know. When we choose to set a structure to our corporate expression of the Church that is patterned after the ways of the world and governed by a process that is at best enslaved by the natural mind we are going to produce the fruit that is consistent with that process. Friends, the things of God are Spiritual and must be spiritually discerned. It is impossible to understand the things of God with our natural minds, i.e. the physical matter in our brain with which we carry out the cognitive process of logic and reason. To even consider governmental structure for the Church that puts sheep voting on who their shepherd is going to be is as ludicrous and rediculous in the Kingdom of God as it would be for real sheep on a ranch. This very issue has sent hundreds of former Baptist pastors, who were sincerely seeking to follow the leading of the Lord in His Church, packing their bags and moving elsewhere (self included). The chosen democratic governing style you find yourself in is operating completely ooutside of the parameters of the government of the Kingdom of God, making the pastor a hireling who answers to man and not the Lord, and by default prohibiting the Holy Spirit from leading and guiding you as he so desires to do. If what the Lord is saying is to be determined by our vote...then that Lord is a God of our creation rather than the other way around. We do these things because we really do not believe GOD WILL SPEAK TO US HIS WILL!! My recommendation, which of course, I know, is not likely to be heeded, is to gather your entire fellowship together, enter into a time (undetermined in length) of fasting, much repentance for trying to control God and his Kingdom with your government, and sincere intercession and seeking His face...UNTIL...UNTIL...UNTIL...He shows up, the Holy Spirit comes upon you all, and you experience the ONE MIND AND ACCORD that HE has purposed for HIS CHURCH! Then...there will be no more issue...and God will set His man in the Church for the task...and you will all be surprized I am sure...for your pastor could, in fact, already be one of YOU!!
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 11:03 PM

Okay, I have to address the issue of the 100% vote and the purpose of asking for that. It is not a matter of pride, but of complete faith that God is in control. Here’s the testimony. . .

I was asked to candidate for Pastor of a small local church about to close its doors. They said they wanted a young pastor who could lead worship, too, and bring in young families. I said I would come talk with them and give them a written vision and plan to make that happen.

After meeting with the small body, sharing the vision I felt God had given me for reviving the church and growing the attendance, and even trying to offend their minds in areas of “sacred cows” such as hymnals, the organ, the communion table, and pews, I agreed to lead the next Sunday’s service (music, preaching, everything) so they could see what I would do. The service went well, we had some visitors (the first in the church for several months), and the members were very complimentary and excited about possibly having found their new pastor.

At that point, I felt LED OF THE LORD to ask for 100% vote of the membership. That was my way of knowing it was God. Did I believe that every member was right with God or hearing His voice? No. Did I need an ego boost? No. I did know, however, that if God wanted me to accept the call, He could easily give me 100% approval. After all, He could speak through a donkey, right? He could surely cause these people to vote for me if He desired. For me, it was an act of faith.

Anyway, I received the 100% and accepted the call, but it was anything but easy. Within 3 weeks, membership had more than doubled, but the “original” members had changed their mind about making changes to bring in young families, so we had a divided body. I reminded the contentious group that they had voted 100% not only for me, but for the vision God had given me, to which one woman replied, “I didn’t want to vote for you, but since the others were, I did, too.” So I called for another vote to retain me, again asking for 100%, knowing that at least 1/3 of the people did not want me there. Again, I trusted God, and to be honest even wanted not to receive 100% because I was ready to leave!!!

And guess what God did?! We followed the bylaws (to a tee, because these people placed the bylaws above God’s Word), and I received another 100% vote! Not one member who was against me showed up to vote. They instead had held their own meeting to vote me out, going against their own bylaws by meeting secretly off the church property and not notifying all members of the church. I couldn’t believe it! God had done it again!

So I pressed on, with about 1/3 of the membership of the church working against everything I did, some even to the point of standing in the middle of service to speak out against me. It was incredible, as if Satan himself had visited our worship services. This contention continued for another couple of months, never knowing what the next move of the dissenters would be. They wouldn’t leave, but they wouldn’t work through the issues, either. After much prayer, I felt led to call one final meeting with a mediator and one final vote. And yes, I again wanted 100% approval in order to remain as pastor.

The mediator came, as did every member, old and new. Ugly things were said. Lies were told. Members called one another names and pointed fingers. The mediator facilitated the discussion, keeping as much order as possible. I kept silent and prayed. After hearing all that the mediator had to say, the small group of angry “Christians” stood together and walked out of the church for good. The mediator called for a vote, and the congregation voted me in 100% for the third time, as well as voting to change the bylaws to line up with God’s Word!

Some reading this will say that it wasn’t God, and I will tell you that much of what happened was definitely not of God. But one thing I do know. God called me to that church without a doubt. Had it not happened the way that it did, I may have questioned the calling because it was anything but easy. It wasn’t fun. It wasn’t fulfilling. It was truly humbling to see God do miracles every day. In fact, I could write a novel (and nearly have).

I just felt I had to share the story. I believe God can do anything. I don’t believe asking for unity in a church when they are calling a pastor or any leader is testing God or the people’s walk with Him. I believe it is truly trusting God to reveal His perfect will, and I will do it every time. Each of you do whatever the Lord leads you to do. It’s not about percentages, but about calling. I just believe that extreme faith brings extreme miracles!

Praise God!
Posted by

Thursday, October 07, 2004 at 11:07 PM

Sorry - one more thing. The new bylaws eliminated church voting, making the church a Biblical theocracy, rather than a democracy. Oh, and “casting lots” was not a voting process, but more like rolling the dice, believing that God was in control of how the lots fell! They knew they couldn’t manipulate the lots, but God could!
Posted by

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 12:33 AM

I was in a church like this, where one family tried to run the church and had for many years. One member of this family took over the Chairman of Deacons and boy did that set the church back 100 years. You just have to pray for these kind of people and hope that they will let God change their hearts and attitudes. The new pastor and this deacon have totally ruined this church. So they both suffer together now in what they did to the church.
Posted by

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 3:15 AM

Here’s a different spin for you…

I was proposed as a pastor (one among many) for a 3 congregation-parish in a country area of Australia. Several candidates had been offered to the church in order for them to work through the process of calling a new pastor.

I made it through the process, and after the final meeting with the church, presbytery and synod boards of the church, only 1 person voted for one of the other candidates.

I preached the following morning in the dissenters church… and a meeting was called later in the day so the previous days vote could be declared void, and a second vote taken… 100%.

But what do you do when your wife says to you after all this (and the call process in my denom takes 3 months minimum) that suddenly after prayer she is feeling a little uneasy about the position.

So after all this, the 100% vote, the overwhelming warm support for me from all 3 congregations (one contemporary, one blended, one traditional), I said no. (not because I didn’t think I felt called to this pastorate, but because I trust my wife’s judgement in matters spiritual, knowing that often she is much closer to the mark than I am).

If I had said yes, I would probably have been happily serving 3 small rural congregations. In saying no, God established a gigantic preaching and music ministry through me that reaches around the world, beyond mine or my wifes largest dreams.......and to think when I said ‘no’, I didn’t even own a passport!

I guess this just echo’s other posters - God is bigger than a vote.
Posted by

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 11:49 AM

Greetings! There are many spiritual insights to the situation. Among them are many questions of voting percentages, congregational maturity, the need for intervention, spiritual discernment, calling and acceptance of the pastor, challenges that the church faces and more.

Personally, I echo the need for bringing in an outsider, someone more objective, to problem solve issues before moving forward with “the call” process. Someone skilled in conflict management in organizations would be valuable in this situation.

The situation is crying out for God’s grace and empowerment of godly leadership. My prayer is for them.

Blessings! Paul
Posted by

Friday, October 08, 2004 at 7:36 PM

Sorry for the casting lots/vote comment - no it was not a democracy then - it was, gasp! a gamble. Either dumb luck or God’s Will depending upon one’s perspective. I was trying to be nice, to the point, not as verbose as most of the responses.
Posted by Bernie Dehler

Sunday, October 10, 2004 at 2:50 PM

There are many church forms of government in practice in the USA. Thank God for religious freedom, which makes this possible! God’s work will prosper in those churches that do God’s work.

...Bernie
http://www.FreeGoodNews.com
Posted by

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 6:29 AM

I would also want a high percentage vote in suppport of calling me as a new pastor, but it sure seems that the 25% who are appposed can stand in the way of moving forward. It gives them a disproportionate power to their votes.
Posted by

Tuesday, October 19, 2004 at 4:28 PM

I would just like to say that whatever churches are doing today, I believe it is time that we allow God to be in control of our Church Services. Man has tried to run or play church for the past 2000 years, and we have failed miserably. If we rely on God to place Ministry teams in our Churches, we cannot go wrong. In our Church of nine years, we have already experienced 3 church splits, all of them ugly. This time it was different. There was a core group that had been praying for a year that God would place a bold man of God in the Pulpit in our Church. This man was sent to us about a month ago, and some of the leadership could not see what was in front of their eyes, until it was pointed out to them; but I would like to say that when God moves into your Church, things happen very quickly, and the people that are serious about having a personal relationship with the Father are quickly separated from those that like to come to church to warm the pew when they feel like it.

God is doing wonderful things in our Church,and what is happening I believe is what happened in the New Testament Church in Acts. Glory to God! My prayer is that people will step aside and let God have control of your Church. He will never fail anyone, He will never have big Church Congregational Meeting arguments. He knows what has to happen to prepare the Bride for the Bridegroom that is coming very soon. I encourage everyone that reads this to go and read how Church was done in Acts, and follow that example. God is so good!
Posted by

Tuesday, November 09, 2004 at 1:10 PM

Greetings In Christ Jesus!

My name is Mark Vipond. I have been pastor @ Just As I Am Church for 16 years, working with The homeless, hurting and poor. We had to sell our building and now I am looking to pastor some where else. This is new to me. How do I do this? I can’t sit and wait on The Lord anymore. No one is banging on my door. My talents our just sitting here. What do you suggest?
It’s frustrating...to say the least. Thanks and God Bless You! Mark Vipond
cell phone # 419-340-3992 website: Justasiamchurch.org
Posted by

Tuesday, February 27, 2007 at 4:45 PM

I am a Baptist worship pastor and I received a 100% vote to come to my present situation. Since that time to say the “bloom is off the rose” would be a massive understatement. Sometimes the 100% vote is a standard we all want to get but people could vote that way because everyone else is....maybe we should consider the ones who might vote “no” as being led by the Holy Spirit. (They could be warning us away from a dead church!) Anyway, just my 2 cents…

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Hi... I'm Todd Rhoades. I'm a Christ-follower, husband, father and I love to connect leaders with other leaders. Hopefully you'll find something here at MMI you like and will return often. If you want, you can find out more about me or follow my every step on Twitter.