1. The Church is an “Organized Religion” with a political agenda

Sure it is, it was in Jesus time too.  He had 12 men, he organized them according to gifts and talents.  Their agenda, Disciple the world.

2. The Church is Judgmental and Negative

If “judgment and negative” means the church stand against sin, and speak out against it, then let us wear the condemnation well.

3. The Church is Male Dominated and Female Oppressive

Sure it is, been that way since the 12 “men” apostles, as to the oppression – depends on what you mean by oppressive.  If one fulfilling a God given role is “oppressive?”

4. The Church is Homophobic

Considering what this “lifestyle” promotes and how scripture condemns it, I think we should fear it’s influence and speak for its deliverance from people and our culture.  If that make us Homophobic, ok.

5. The Church Thinks They Have the Exclusive Way to God (and everyone else is wrong)

Yes, if a church holds that Jesus is the only “way, truth and life” and the only way to the Father.  Then we are promoting an exclusive Way to God.

6. The Church takes the Bible too literally and are “Fundamentalists”

I would hope so, and if we aren’t then what we are preaching is as irrelevant to the salvation of man as the novel “War and Peace.”

What a list!  And you know, from the point of view of those who don’t want to have anything to do with the church, it is a list that will always give them cover.  Far from trying to debate folks on this point, I applaud Dan’s efforts to reach them where they are - in the middle of their family.  On one point however, the church is not dominated by men influence these days.  Recent surveys show the opposite, with church attendance at 61% female, 39% male.  To wit - if someone wants to be ‘mad’ or ‘disenfrancised’ ... they often will find any reason to be so.

Ray:

“On one point however, the church is not dominated by men influence these days. Recent surveys show the opposite, with church attendance at 61% female, 39% male.”

The fact that women outnumber men in congregations that are controlled by men only strengthens the point that “church” is somewhat sexist, although Jesus and Paul sought to change that misconception of God’s kingdom.

I’m very happy to have seen the first few posts defending the Faith rather than explain how we should attempt to change it to be more acceptable to sin, homosexuality, unisexism, etc.

If you’re willing to change God to meet man, why bother choosing Jesus, any god will do.

This is Dan Kimball, and from reading most of these posts, I am wondering if the people writing these comments are even in relationships with non-christians? I am only going by what i read, not by knowing those who have written here (as you can’t tell hearts from blog posts) but from the tone, it sure seems like what several are doing is defending these comments by saying “these are blind unbelievers in sin whose hearts are hardended, so who cares what they think!” it makes me very sad reading most of these responses. remember, these are what people outside of the church see the church as. i wasn’t saying it was all true, i was saying this is how they percieve us.

If anyone has a missionary heart, then you (we) should be going out and listening to people, learning what they think and value, and then praying to find the best way that we can communicate the gospel and love them by. quite honestly what i sense i am reading here (and again, i am only going by what i am reading without seeing facial expression or knowing hearts) is actually backing up the very attitides that those i talk to have about christian leaders.

i might get some mad at me for saying this, but i don’t hear any broken hearts for these people. just “they’re sinners so of course they will think that!”.

are any of you in relationships with non-christians?

dan

Dan said:

“quite honestly what i sense i am reading here (and again, i am only going by what i am reading without seeing facial expression or knowing hearts) is actually backing up the very attitides that those i talk to have about christian leaders.”

Precisely!

No one has been willing to admit that there’s at least one shred of truth found in the indictment in the article.

We must remember that every stereotype or profile is based on some truth.  I believe that one of the main reasons Jesus was born to a poor family was so that He would grow up around real people with real problems looking for real solutions.

Thank God He wasn’t born the son of a religious professional (i.e., PK)!

I am not at all surprised at Dan’s list, in fact I suspect the list fairly represents the unchurched’s view of the Church.  I am somewhat surprised that there wasn’t something about sexual abuse given the news over the last few years. 

How could their view be any different?

What is the primary way that people have their worldviews shaped?  The media certainly has a strong influence in that effort.  If I looked at Dan’s list I would say that these could easily be talking points for a standard script for a Hollywood movie.

The old saying is that perception is reality.  One’s perception can be terribly flawed but we must treat one’s perception as though it was reality while showing the true reality if we want to engage them in conversation.

If more Christians live incarnate lives before a watching world and engage them on their turf in love and with respect there will at least be an opportunity to engage in conversation.  I honestly believe that if the watching world sees the Church giving itself away, expecting nothing in return, we will have an opportunity to engage in honest dialogue. 

The Church giving itself away is a message that runs counter to everything that is held out as Christianity in today’s most visible representations.  The images today are of arenas filled with people sitting and listneing.  The Church should be so much more than that.  Hey I know let’s be salt and light.

There are many areas that we can come alongside of unchurched people without getting on slippery theological slopes.  We should do that as often as possible.

Ultimately it is all about God doing the work in the hearts of people.  We are commanded to go - and so we must.  We cannot gurantee the fruitfulness of our efforts, but we can be faithful to the command.

Hi Dan,

Maybe what we all need is a DE-Mask us experience like Paul had.

I’m glad to have these comments. They help me to understand the “unchurched” mind.

1. The Church is an “Organized Religion” with a political agenda
Lord have mercy! Jesus’ agenda was not political like some Christian leaders’ have been. His agenda was to seek and save the lost. I want that to be MY agenda.

2. The Church is Judgmental and Negative
Jesus ate and dined with sinners, and they enjoyed coming to him. I want to be the kind of person that sinners find approachable, even though I don’t join in or condone their sin.

3. The Church is Male Dominated and Female Oppressive
EVEN in chuches where female leadership is celebrated, I’ve seen many hearts that need to change. Jesus appeared first to women when he rose. I don’t want to see any distinctions in people by race or sex or creed. God loves them all the same

4. The Church is Homophobic
Lord help me to realize that MY sin is just as bad as anyone’s. Worse, maybe… And help me to try to introduce your Son to them, then your Holy Spirit can sort it all out. In other words, I don’t want people to clean up their lives then come to church. I want them to feel welcome, then the H.S. will help them in whatever way he deems fit. You’re a big God, Lord, I pray that I let you be that…

5. The Church Thinks They Have the Exclusive Way to God (and everyone else is wrong)
Lord, If I’ve got THE answer, help me to express it with the kind of love You did when you were here, by service and kindness. Make me more like Mother Theresa and less like… (you fill in the blank)

6. The Church takes the Bible too literally and are “Fundamentalists”
just cause it’s a “weapon”, and yes, I admit, an offensive one at that, doesn’t mean we have to hurt people with it. Jesus didn’t. He used Scripture to bring comfort, healing… Let me do the same…

I well imagine younger people saying what you have listed. I would also venture to add that they see a great inconsistency between what many Christians believe and how they live, and use that a reason to disregard the Christian church/message. I also hear them comment that there are too few people their own age, as so too many older people for them with whom many cannot not [perhaps do not want to] relate.
My 2 Canadian cents worth!

Let’s admit it.  These statements are what they see.  We can blame the press, the media, the movies, or point our fingers a hundred other directions.

Until we accept responsibility for the church that we all are part of (Christ’s church - not each building or denomination), we will blindly continue to confirm their suspicions.  While we deny that we are to blame, we look guilty of what they perceive.

Are their perceptions true?  No, and yes.  They are true enough in enough cases to make them plausible or even undeniable.  Can we straighten out the unbelievers perceptions?  Maybe, but not by arguing with them - too many examples out there to show their belief is based in reality.  Can we straighten out all the ‘christians’ who prove their point?  Not likely. 

What we are responsible for is spreading the truth.  The truth is they are lost.  The truth is God loves them where they are, and wants them to see where they are and where He is more than God cares how they see the church.  The truth is we are sent into the world to love them.  If they don’t see that - let’s point the finger at ourselves! 

I try, but I have to start by pointing the finger at myself.  I take the bible literally and sometimes tread over reaching out to someone.  I know Christ is the only way to God, but the narrow paths that I and those I know have walked to find Christ in our lives are not the only paths ever walked to reach the place where other persons have realized they need Christ to.  I share a political view now and then, I’m a male pastor, and don’t have as many homosexual friends now as I did 10 or 12 years ago.

I’m sorry.  But it’s not enough to tell you, I have to tell them - until they are not a them anymore.