I agree with Peter about complaining to God.  The Psalms are full of full tilt complaining. And let’s not forget about the weeping prophet Jeremiah, who was awfully mad at God for assigning him that pitiful congregation in Judah.

But I think Bonhoeffer has a point about complaining to the people and to others.  There doesn’t seem to be any record that Jesus complained publicly about His assigned congregation.  It is true that sometimes God moves a shepherd from one flock to another, but as long as we have an assignment from God, there could be negative consequences if we complain to anyone but God about the assignment.

Wendi

adude - yes, I just didn’t want to be all that hard on our weeping prophet brother.  The worst pastoral assignment today would pale in comparison to Jeremiah’s assignment.  So I think since the Holy Spirit saw fit to record his complaints in the holy scripture, we should assume some literary license to pour out our worst complaints to God.

Wendi

Interesting.  Bonhoffer does give one something to chew on.  Course, Jesus as the Head Shepherd did have the Apostle John write some churches in Revelation 2 and 3.  Some of the remarks to some churches were not too kind.  Then there is Paul who says, “You foolish Galatians!” (Gal. 3:1).  Those are the exceptions - not the rule.

I would say that one should be very, very careful about “complaining” - as they can cause some in the congregation to vote to send the pastor packing.  [Of course it is okay to complain about the pastor - that’s the American way Christian, right? - just having fun here!]

Some of what is quoted can equally apply to church members.  I wonder what would happen if both pastors and church members took such an approach.

I do appreciate his comments, though I don’t necessarily agree with them entirely.

This past summer I had people complain about me (behind my back, of course - never to my face...), and I had to ask God to not only help them see their sin and repent, but also to help me see what in me may have prevented them from coming to me.  If I had done something to raise a barrier, then I needed to deal with that in repentance.  However, this does not excuse the sin of those who chose to go outside Biblical guidelines for dealing with people.

So I complain to God.  The complaints I make to others are either in a board meeting setting where everyone knows what’s going on already and I can ask for their input on what I could have done differently.  That hurts, by the way!  I also talk with other pastors who may have input as well, never using names.

I’ve been an advocate of complaining to God for quite a while!  But I think that a complementary point is that we need to be careful that our complaining is not for the purpose of blaming God for our predicament.

Jeremiah did that, but I’m not sure that’s what we’re SUPPOSED to do.  It’s part of the narrative, not part of a teaching that says we should accuse God.

I might complain about people, but never about God.  Even in the midst of my hassles last year, I was confident that God was in control, and that He would bring me through, even if it meant that my ministry here was over (it’s not - praise God!).

But I can easily see why people would complain about God and the appearance that He is doing some harm - or simply allowing it through “His” people in the pews.  So I want to be careful that I don’t give the indication that I think it is wrong from a Scriptural standpoint.

Brian

Most of the people who have given their approval to complaining have misunderstood Bonhoeffer completely.  Bonhoeffer would never instruct you to withhold your heart from God, or to refrain from pouring out to God your struggles and your honest thoughts about your circumstances.  But he would tell you to let Satan do the accusing.  Let the enemy be the one who damns, you point to Christ and to the truths of His Word.  You as shepherd ought to bring the sheep before Christ, begging for His mercy and intervention.  You are not the accuser of your congregation but the shepherd.  This does not mean you cannot tell God “these people are sinning.” Bonhoeffer would ask you to turn your complaining into prayer, ask Christ to intercede in their lives, remind your foolish Galatians of the WORD, remind the Luke Warm congregation of God’s call to obedience.

I understand Pastors not talking bad to other people but every man needs to vent and if we cant talk to god who can we talk to?