Ah… but Bernie… that would be like me being on your staff and talking saying something about how God has blessed John Hagee financially. (I know that’s one of your pet peeves!) That’s something that would bother you greatly.  Don’t you think it’s good that he tells them upfront what bothers him (no matter how silly) rather than let his staff do it and then just stew about it behind closed doors?  And this would be something that wouldn’t even have to do with workplace matters, like clearing the conference room would.

I guess I would rather know things upfront (that my boss hated messy conference rooms or doesn’t like the fact that megachurch pastors make mega bucks) before I go and tick them off unknowingly.

Just my 2 cents worth (if that!)

Todd

I have to agree with Sue’s comments and the point Bernie brought out in that Pastor Bruce Johnson “IS THE BOSS”. Whenever leaders take on this attitude of I’m the boss” it is the sin of pride and the love of power. This type of attitude denies growth in Christ and limits the body of Christ from moving under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, because of fear of offending the BOSS. We are all servants of God through Christ and when we assume totalitarian control of any ministry, we then replace the head, which is Christ. This then in turn gives rise to our own little kingdoms on earth that revolve around us instead of Christ.

I would really like to have a list of what annoyed my boss. Next April Fools I would really have a good time! All joking aside, I would rather know what bothers people and work things out instead of letting things build up until someone blew up.

Thanks for linking to my blog.  It’s started quite a few discussions in a lot of churches.  But some of your readers are reading too much into the blog.  I do want to focus on the important things, that’s why I believe it’s critical to get the little things out on the table.  Whether I care about spelling or don’t, that’s a good thing for an employee to know.  Whether I care about how a page looks or not, it’s a good thing for an employee to know. I only used the chairs example because it illustrates how something so little can bother us (but we rarely ever tell anyone).  The bigger issues are concern for others and excellence.  When the little issues are communicated up front, then a leader can focus on the bigger issues.

And the comment about being THE BOSS is laughable.  By definition, if you are the leader of a church, and you hire employees, you are the boss.  To assume that I’m authoritarian just because I want to make it easy on employees is ridiculous. The point of the blog wasn’t about employees.  The point of the blog was about bosses.  As leaders, we often have conflict with our employees because we’ve failed.  We haven’t communicated to our employees what our expectations and idiosyncrasies are.  I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound authoritarian, that sounds loving (my point is that when you come to work at Seneca Creek you don’t need to spend six months trying to figure out what the boss expects or cares about).  If a boss’s list is two things or twenty, the number isn’t important, making sure that their people know what’s going on in their heads is. 

Oh, and how Daniel can take this simple blog and then make the comment that I’m guilty of “the sin of pride and the love of power. This type of attitude denies growth in Christ and limits the body of Christ from moving under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, because of fear of offending the BOSS. When we assume totalitarian control of any ministry, we then replace the head, which is Christ. This then in turn gives rise to our own little kingdoms on earth that revolve around us instead of Christ” is really remarkable.  How this simple blog has grown to undermine the Head of the church and limit the body of Christ is beyond me.  My guess is that Daniel may want to go back and read Paul.

It all comes down to this.  Great bosses let people know what they expect.  And great employees want to know what their bosses expect.  If a boss cares about little things, employees ought to know that.  If a boss doesn’t care about little things, then employees ought to know that.  Either way, I think we could all agree that communication is a good thing.  Hope that helps!

Bruce,
I want to agree with what you are saying, but I can’t.  Something about your language in all this does not seem to be right.  Honestly if my senior pastor gave me a list of little pet peeves of his like you have, I might turn around and leave. 
During my college career they taught us (as best they could) to watch for red flags before serving in a church.  If I was interviewing with you and you showed me that list you made, that would be a red flag, and I would stop the interview and be on my way.
Sounds like you are to demanding.  I know that is not fair to you, not knowing you and all.  I think the problem is language.  “I’m the boss.” “My employees.”
Is communication a good thing.  Yes it is a great thing.  Is letting things go that aren’t important to the call of ministry a good thing?  Yes a very good thing.  Maybe you should think on that.
Also Jesus called His disciples friends.  “You are my friends if you do what I command.  I no longer call you servants, becasue a servant does not know his mater’s business.  Instead I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.” John 15:14,15 I realize that Jesus is talking to the disciples here, but if the Lord of the universe called those under Him friends, I wonder how He would think of you calling the Pastors under your care employees?
Again I see your point, but the way you stated it makes me cringe. 
With all respect

Bruce (and all),

Bruce, I’m with you on this one… having served under a few different pastors, I would much rather know the things that will bother or irritate; because, knowing me, I’ll do every single one of them, albeit unknowingly.  So it would be a great help.

I think Bruce is dealing with a great deal of character assasination here.  We don’t know his leadership style from just this post.  To assume is just wrong.  And I’m afraid that those of you that accuse Bruce so readily of having a big ego are (or have been) serving under a ‘big ego’ pastor; and speaking a little out of hurt or personal experiences with an abusive pastor.

Is it me, or do some here think that ministry is all roses; puppy dogs and ice cream?  Some feel we can all just act like buddies all the time and accomplish great things for the Kingdom.  This hasn’t been my expereience personally (or working with literally hundreds of church staff members).  Ministry is tough work.  Ministry requires boundaries.  And there is (like it or not) a flow chart of authority and someone has to be “the boss”.  I think part of this is in the term “the boss"… but it is the case.  We’re not borrowing ‘business terminology’ here and applying it to the church either… we’re just stating the fact that everyone has a superior (even the ‘boss’ senior pastor!)

Don’t get me wrong… ministry can be a blast (and I’ve been in a couple situations during times of ministry that it was the most fun and prosperous time of my life).  However, I need to know when I ‘leave chairs a mess’ or chew my gum too loudly or step over someone elses pet peeve.  I’d much rather have it dealt with on the spot or even in a list than to have it simmer over time and show up on an annual performance review (which is usually what happens in most churches).

Great job, Bruce in being open, honest, and upfront about expectations with your staff, no matter how indeosycric they may be!

With all respect though, you are being somewhat the same way (nitpicky) by prefering ‘staff’ over ‘employees’ (they are essentially the same); or ‘leader’ over ‘boss’.  I think they DO have different connotations; but when I was on staff, I always knew who the boss was; or leader.  I also was a part of the staff (but everytime I picked up my paycheck, I realized I was also an employee).

Let’s put it in a different perspective… let’s say that you your ‘leader’ gave you permission to hire an assistant.  Now think of the thing in this world that really drives you crazy. (maybe you can’t stand unnecessary noise, like the sound of the tapping of a pencil on a desk).  Yet on day one, you find your assistant constant tapping their pencil on their desk and chomping their gum.  What would you do?  How would you handle it?  If you could sit there and do nothing, then you’re better than I am.

All I’m saying is that it’s better to take Bruce’s take:  tell them upfront; than to sit there and stew about it; get angry; and say nothing (until you go to do an evaluation on that employee).  It’s honest, upfront; and sometimes necessary.

Any thoughts?

Bruce, putting chairs back in place is not a “little” thing.  You have a compulsive disorder, and you should deal with it, rather than expect your team to have to deal with it simply because you refuse to… because “you are the boss.” If you refuse to seek help, I don’t expect any more explanations or blog writing can help you…

There’s a big difference between being at meetings on time, and tucking chairs under a table.  One affects productivity, the other is a compulsive disorder. 

Someone has to tell you that you have a disorder… I’m sure your workers won’t, because it would “upset the boss” and his rules.

...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

Sorry I a know I have commented a lot on this issue, but I need to coment on Lara’s statement.  Ok one last thing.  Actually it is wrong in my opinion to say that the Pastor is the boss.  Hopefully the Pastor is not paying the bills and hopefully the Pastor does not have final say in all matters.  The Senior Pastor does not right my checks nor signs them. 
Can the Pastor tell me what to do, indeed He can.  I disagreed with Pastors from time to time, and they allow me to do it.  Infact they talk it out with me.  A boss orders people to do things, a leader influences people to do things.  Have any of you read John Maxwell’s stuff?  This is where I am coming from.
Lara I am not single minded, just passionate.  I hope you aren’t misunderstanding me.  I am not putting Bruce down just a little of the philosphy here. 
Should expectations be laid out on the table, but how silly to include little things like pushing in the chairs under the table.  Ok I am done.
Sorry if I got us off topic

Todd, the moderator here…

OK… time to step in here…

Bruce has given a response to his original writing here and has responded to some of the comments made at this (and other) blogs:

http://bruced.typepad.com/brucedjohnsoncom/2005/04/assume_the_best.html

I must say that the judgemental statements and attitudes need to stop in this forum…

Now, don’t go off on me for only wanting nice posts, or for editing comments, or for not wanting any comments but my own.  I always allow for disagreement, but not for personal attack or public humiliation.

Remember, folks, actual people write these posts; and they are here to help you and others… This is not the first time that a writer of a post has had to come on this blog to personally defend him/herself from the personal attacks of our respondants.  This should not be.  Come on folks.

It is one thing to say something like, “I disagree with the author’s approach” or to say, “Bruce, I respectfully disagree”.  It’s another thing to say, “Bruce, putting chairs back in place is not a “little” thing. You have a compulsive disorder, and you should deal with it...Someone has to tell you that you have a disorder… I’m sure your workers won’t, because it would “upset the boss” and his rules.” This to me is clearly over the line.

Most of our mother’s used to say, “If you can’t say anything nice, then don’t say anything at all.” I think that would be a good thing here when it comes to personal attacks.

It amazes me how something that was meant for good can turn so ugly so fast; especially among a group of pastors.  Why is this so?  Can someone help me out here?

Todd

Todd, I agree that things had spiraled downward in this blog. I had another comment that I was going to write yesterday, but before posting it, I realized it was feeding that fire, so I did not post it.
I think what’s driving this frenzy is that Bruce approached this whole issue as a BOSS/EMPLOYEE relationship. While I understand his view, I, and it seems many others cannot swallow it. We are all *servants* of Christ - yes, someone has to be the head servant in individual churches, but the word “boss” puts a negative connotation to it. The church is becoming sooooo secular oriented in scope, management and practice that it seems that we now treat church as “work” rather than ministry. Calling the senior pastor the “boss” just makes it all that more secular in many minds (or at least in mine). I think that’s what’s causing the rub here - the perceived view of the boss/employee relationship v/s the fellow-workers in Christ (Ro 16:3) view.

Bernie,

When you say things like “You have a compulsive disorder” and “Someone has to tell you that you have a disorder” those are personal attacks and judgemental.  There is a fine line between ‘opinion’ and ‘personal attack’ and I think you crossed the line.

I’m sure Bruce is a big boy, but he doesn’t deserve to have his character assasined here.  We’ve never met him, never served with him, and above all, don’t know his heart.

Again, critique and opinion are one thing… and in my opinion you crossed the line, Bernie… unfortunately, I’m the BOSS of this blog (he said smiling) and I’m the one who creates the line. 

Thanks to everyone for your discussion… let’s just keep it on principles and away from personalities and personal attack.

Todd