Just curious.  To those that agree with Ed and say that this is “not God’s plan” for starting or planting a church:

What’s your biblical reason/s?  Ed gave a corporate example...but I’m not sure what biblical reason any of this can be based on outside of someone’s heart being one of envy and strife while planting said-church.  And as a follow-up...how can one assume all guys that go such a route have envy, strife, etc. in their heart?  This just seems random, weird and creepy to me…

“If you’re that big and bad, go out and do it yourself”.  What kind of statement is that?!?  Is this what he really thinks is at the heart of men that are called to plant churches--that we’re “big and bad”?  My motivation is the Gospel and the God who called me...not my rather insufficient abilities.  Does he really think a called pastor should “do it yourself” to be legit? 

This is all very troubling if taken at face value.  Perhaps he’ll shed more light on all this by giving some background story to help understand why this is so personally agitating to him right now…

One thing that struck me with this video is the lack of understanding Young has with how business works. He referred to something like “this would never happen in the business world.” Well, that’s correct if that person signed a non-compete prior to being hired. But in 99.9% of jobs in this country that isn’t the case.

As someone who has working in “corporate America” he is just denying simple fact. There is little any company can do to stop an ex-employee from starting a business in their former employees backyard.

Without “pirating” this country wouldn’t have some of our best companies, products, and innovations.

I think Young should change his thinking and think about the Kingdom of God instead of his lil kingdom.

We all know that each church reaches a certain type of person. He should be happy that a person would take the risk and try to reach people Fellowship missed.

This is completely asinine!!

Another rant and rave by an aging pastor desperately trying to keep a hold on the numbers that define his success. Some of the statements he makes are just ludicrous.

Nobody ends up in jail for starting a competitor company. They can be sued if they signed a non-compete, but not jail time. And to call someone on a staff for 20 YEARS a disloyal “pirate?”

Just for the record, I’ve planted within the last year, 2 1/2 miles from the church (of about 200 people) I attended for 3 years, with the pastor’s blessing. That church was planted 5 years ago from a “megachurch” only 3 1/2 miles from there. Also with the pastor’s blessing.

The goal is to reach the lost. We need to get beyond the idea of building our little kingdoms and realize that God builds His church.

Anytime people are being discipled into the Christian life, we should rejoice, not grumble about how many people were “stolen” in the process.

I think some have missed the point.  Ed is not talking about legitimate church planters.  he is talking about church transplanters.  People with wrong motives.

As to “owning” the sheep, pastors are not owners, but they are shepherds who will give account to the chief shepherd.

I am amazed at how many have judged Ed’s motives.  As I watched the video, I saw a heart of concern.  I guess it is because I have been there.

Ray writes [Just for the record, I’ve planted within the last year, 2 1/2 miles from the church (of about 200 people) I attended for 3 years, with the pastor’s blessing.]

And I hope with his assistance, maybe. And THAT is the difference. Some of you guys haven’t seen what happens when someone joins a staff with the express purpose of splitting the church. It’s horrible. That’s what Ed’s talking about. (Did you all actually hear what he said? Some of you it appears didn’t.)

[ What about the megachurch that gets planted in a town and starts “pirating” people away from the smaller nearby churches?] Good point. I have a counter. What about the town that is filled with churches who so worship tradition that they are only filled with the silver-haired set. What if no church moves into that town that actually appeals to people who are younger, and they all die in their sin? What if they don’t plant a church because they are afraid of offending the people who can’t seem to change their methods (never the message of course)?

That would be a tragedy. If there are churches in a community that are making a difference and reaching people who are lost, great, if there aren’t… then we need to plant new young churches to replace the old ones that we are seeing die away.

I visited the Young church - and I must say, it seemed all about Hollywood & Mr. Young. In the store that is part of the church, his photo graced the cover of nearly every end cap. Books by him, for him and about him.

I have planted 2 churches, one in a low income, inner cite area and another in an urban suburban area.  I am less than 3 minutes from the church that we planted from.  In out first year another church came out of the church that planted us about five minutes from us and we sent almost 50-60 people.  We were less than a year old. 

I think that the reality is that within 15 minutes of where we are are several hundred thousand people who do not know Christ.  We planted all our churches with these people in mind.  I pay very little attention to the size of other churches since there are so many people who they do not reach. 

I understand Ed’s comments.  They in some ways seem poorly communicated.  I do know people who have pirated as Ed calls it.  I think it is stuff that probably did not need to be said, he said it to his staff.

Yup...a group of us founded a church only to have the second pastor we called whoosh in and “steal” our work...changing the constitution to be what he wanted to protect his job forever, making elder rule, changing the location, the chairs, the time of worship, the leadership,and running off anyone who dared challenge his position.  Oh, did I mention he hurt many beautiful Christian people while splitting this church in a small community?

On top of that, he did another number to assure his position forever in the church.  The only result was to leave a work we had poured our hearts into and leave this person to our Heavenly Father who says, “He will replay.”

Yup...a group of us founded a church only to have the second pastor we called whoosh in and “steal” our work...changing the constitution to be what he wanted to protect his job forever, making elder rule, changing the location, the chairs, the time of worship, the leadership,and running off anyone who dared challenge his position.  Oh, did I mention he hurt many beautiful Christian people while splitting this church in a small community?

On top of that, he did another number to assure his position forever in the church.  The only result was to leave a work we had poured our hearts into and leave this person to our Heavenly Father who says, “He will repay.”

We had to fight for an adult Bible study for two months and for the cross to be where he wanted the big screen.

And oh, have any of you ever heard the policy that you can’t lead little children to the Lord under 12 unless the parents are present?

I have never heard Ed Young Jr. speak before.  Since I am a pastor in a much smaller church in rural eastern oregon it is a little hard to relate to his staff meeting with almost as many people as our church has.  It does seem like he is ranting and on his soap box.  Why would he need to communicate this to his staff unless he is attempting to prevent some from bolting to plant another church. 

Now instead of thinking about staff leaving to start another church as right or wrong what if we thought about this in a different way.  What if Fellowship Church were to regularly “birth” churches in their area.  This is different than staff leaving to start a rival church but rather it is a commitment from the leadership to bless and send out a group with a shepherd to start a new fellowship in another part of the city. 

This would then eliminate the accusations that leaders such as Ed Young are building churches that are a monument to themselves.  It would also empower many leaders to shepherd God’s people and preach the word.  Leaders would not have to “sneak” away from the flock to pastor but would be trained up and sent out with the blessings of the existing leadership.

Consider all of the statistics that point towards church plants being far more effective at reaching the lost than established churches.

Just a thought.

Dedicated does have a point:  the worst church pirates tend to be seizing the whole ship at smaller congregations, and typically join with this in mind.  Sadly, too often the head pastor has some issue and has alienated the people who loved him and the church enough to confront him about it.  Most often, the “pirate” was plotting the takeover from the moment he joined the group, having sensed a weakness in the congregation.

But churches who are sending out members to start new churches rarely encounter the problem of their members being “stolen” by a former staff member.  Occasionally the new plant will outgrow the parent church, but that’s okay.  As a parent, it thrills me to see my children prosper and I know that as I age, my place in this world and in their lives changes.  It doesn’t mean that I need to redecorate my house and throw out all my old Creedence cd’s in favor of the latest pop phenomenon so that they won’t move out.  If I’ve done a good job raising them, they will move on in their lives, but enjoy a visit “home” and keep good memories of it.

Yea, he’s hurt, he’s ticked and he will HOPEFULLY regret this sermon/ video later.

He’s not being a peace maker he’s being a @#@$ stirrer.

Grace to him and all that he refers too.