Bill I understand (I think) what you are saying about the integrity of just preaching the Word. But it needs a context. I hope (again his book is not out yet so lets be careful we don’t judge in advance) what Ed Young might be talking about is how do we place the Word in the most effective context so that hearers (believers in the original article above) would take it to heart and act on it.

Something as simple as a sound system helps the preaching of the word. Do we stop there? Do we use printed notes? Powerpoint? How far do we go and how much creativity do we bring to bear? My fear is that we now do creativity for the sake of itself and then we are in the “entertainment” business. At some point we do need to deeply recognize the intrinsic supernatural power of the Word in the hands of a prepared, spiritually filled and Spirit gifted Preacher and/or Teacher and “get outta their way!”

Thanks Mike

I am the first “Bill” on the Post!  I read books!  Please forgive me if it may have sounded that I was against that and I pray Ed’s book does well for those who are “already saved and on their way to Glory”.

Preach the Word means (to me) that we have an abundance of material and should present it all at the watering hole.  The Gospel is often watered down to make sure we do not offend those who are ready to jump ship or are already walking the line.  “If Jesus is not going to lose one that His Father gave Him” (And I believe that is more than His apostles) we need to Preach the Word and let It do what Jesus designed it to do, KNOWING it will never return VOID.  This of course has to be tempered with LOVE or it sounds like a clanging symbol??? did I spell that right?  simble!  (you know what I mean)

I will be buying Ed’s next book. 

It is the “McChurch, OR—on again off again—NON committed, sometime/seekers who I personally feel for as they go to the church and are (ONLY ONLY ONLY) bombarded with feel good preaching about their latest books, programs, social events, and never challenged in their thinking.  Jesus said, “If you confess me before others, I will confess you before my Father in heaven, but if you deny me I will deny you.” and then there is Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Confession MUST be accompanied by FAITH that is deep within ones heart for SALVATION to be applied.  Faith is accompanied with actions that “set-apart” “sanctify” one from a world that is headed in the wrong direction.  Are we raising up a people with “CONFESSION” only as the Catholic Church has done for centuries and disguising it as something new, OR are we going to dig deep into the WORD and see exactly what FAITH is all about?  Laying down one’s life… by giving all of ourselves to Jesus and inturn to others.
One more scripture gives us all insight on what Jesus expects from all of us and those we have been given charge to—TO preach the Word: Hebrews 1:1F

“Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.”

God is permitting—let’s do so.

Thank you Mike for your thoughts and please forgive me if I offended you in any way.

May the Lord bless us all as we continue to grow in Faith!

Pastor Bill

PS I recently met a young man and his young wife that graduated from a local evangelical college with a BA in Business!!!
I asked If he was saved? answer “I think” Question, What do you mean I think?  Answer “does anyone know for sure?” Question, If you die tonight where will you go, heaven or Hell?  I am not sure, heaven I think!

I wound up praying with them and they both walked away after confessing Jesus as Savior and inviting Him into their hearts.  I also instructed them on what to do with their faith before they left!

A four year degree at a Biblical college and their focus was on BUSINESS!  Shame on that Biblical college!  A “captive” audience in a Biblical college and the students come out of there being good in business only—no wonder our churches are often watered down.

Now I am done

I write too much (sorry)

Pete King said:
“Here’s where I think churches fail the most. We can often times lead them to the water and even get them to drink but fail to help them with the journey.”

I think that’s because ministries like Billy Graham (who many lift up as a role-model) raise millions of dollars to do crusades to see thousands come forward, then rejoice as if the job is done (you wonder how many ‘still-born’ baby Christians are made!).  It’s really just the beginning.  But if you want to be famous and popular, focus on the numbers.  It’s much more exciting than spiritual growth and descipling.  We need some solid Christian spiritual leaders… and I’m sure we have them, they are just not “famous” because it’s against their modus operandi, unlike the celebrity preachers who are seeking the limelight (and mammon?) through branding, books, etc.

When will we stop seeking this “flash in the pan” (raise your hand) evangelism and REALLY seek to save the lost?  From what I’ve seen, I think a good role-model would operating like the Salvation Army.  I’ve never attended their services/church, but I keep encountering them in my studies and research… and it always seems to be in a good light, doing the things of Jesus…

As I read the postings I was taken back to the story told about St. Jerome and the Vulgate translation.  As I learned the story, when Jerome gave the church the Latin Translation Augustine complained that Jerome had watered down the message of Christ. After all if a person really wanted to be a follower of Jesus Christ all they had to do was to read the text in the original language.
I don’t know but I still like the words of the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 9: 19-23)
This means I am not bound to obey people just because they pay me, yet I have become a servant of everyone so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with the Gentiles who do not have the Jewish law, I fit in with them as much as I can. In this way, I gain their confidence and bring them to Christ. But I do not discard the law of God; I obey the law of Christ. When I am with those who are oppressed, I share their oppression so that I might bring them to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone so that I might bring them to Christ. I do all this to spread the Good News, and in doing so I enjoy its blessings.

Bernie Delher said,
“I think that’s because ministries like Billy Graham (who many lift up as a role-model) raise millions of dollars to do crusades to see thousands come forward, then rejoice as if the job is done (you wonder how many ‘still-born’ baby Christians are made!).”

I caution here to the approach that the Billy Grahams of the world are neglecting the whole process of developing the Christian. They are simply doing what they are called to do. When we talk about the “Ministry” we sometimes can develop a tunnel vision when it comes to the big picture. I personally have seen individuals who have tried to play the complete package deal and have fallen tragically short. So many of us struggle with the idea that it must always be the “Preacher” up front who does it all. This idea simply says, eliminate the collective leadership and you can save the masses. However, here’s where the notion of dependance comes in. First off, we need the Lord and each other to accomplish the task. Why is it that opposites attract; its because the different make ups help the two individuals survive. For example, I really view ministry as a multi-faceted organism that requires a strong head leader but a fully empowered team that is able to opperate on the level that maximizes their giftings. As much as I believe that this method would be successful in complete ministry effectiveness, it is virtually impossible to accomplish. People corrupt the process. We bring into the model our views and suppositions that hinder its potential. You see, it requires compliance and cooperation as well as respect for each office. Since, sometimes things can become blurry as to who handles the different issues in church, the structure can become weak when the communication is poor. There must be a chain of command but power must remain where it best serves the situation. Its a humbling place for each position and if any member of the leadership fails to accept their persective role then we fail at accomplishing the purpose of team effort. Sadly, I’m affraid the cultural challenge will always stump us if we fail to see the weakness of bearing the weight of everything on one man’s shoulders. Oviously, the “Mega Church”
has somewhat reduced this thinking but some who have been part of the Mega Church ministry have noticed the drive to bring in numbers as opposed to developing the ones they have. Its all in the balance. We must have balance and not be critical of good ideas that are sometimes poorly executed.

Just a comment on creativity...When my daughter was a baby and I would feed her, I would use creative ways (ie..spoon as an airplane coming in for a landing) to get her to open her mouth and receive the food.  Why?  Because didn’t always like the taste of what I was feeding her.  I didn’t do this because the food was not sufficient on its own, I did it because the food was only of value to her if I could get her to swallow it and digest it.

The same truth applies for creativity in the church...we don’t use creativity because the gospel is not powerful and sufficient on its own...we use creativity to because unbelievers need to receive and digest God’s word for it to be of value to them...and they won’t do that if they don’t think they’ll enjoy it or if they have a bad taste in their mouth from past experiences. 

The bottom line is using whatever means necessary to engage a culture with the bible so that their lives can be changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ. 

Finally, you can be creative and preach the Word without watering it down.  It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

Bernie,

About that Billy Graham thing.  Remember those ministries are specficially designed for planting seeds.  It’s my understanding that they have local church/groups available to connect on a more personal level to further develop and grow the new Christian.  Not every convert will avail themselves to this help.

I have often been a part of something I felt was unsuccessful… Only to later learn that seeds I helped to plant were nutured by others, rooted and bloomed elsewhere, and maybe even pruned further down the line for additional flowering. 

It’s a wonderful gift when I learn of these things.  I’m sure there are some seeds that scattered to the wind but have to think that still others have been nutured by my continued prayers that they would take root and flourish wherever they are.

Still, I can understand where you may be coming from.  I am a cynic by nature, pragmatic in practice and optimistic by grace.  Probably why Jer. 29:11 is my favorite verse…

The parable of the sower talks about sowing in thorny ground, sowing in the stony ground...and so on.  The main point being that for people to receive what is being put forth while at church, allowing it to take hold and change their lives, they must have good ground in their hearts.  No amount of creativity is going to change the condition of the heart.  The only thing that can change the condition of the heart is the Word of God.  It is not in the man that delivers the message, but in God.  The man is only a mouthpiece for what God wants to say.  Therefore, where does seeking God come into what will be brought before the congregation?  Shouldn’t that be the primary focus?  After all, it is the Word of God, not the Word of Man.

When we have to dress the gospel up and make it cute and cuddly means we have do not believe in the power of the gospel (Rom. 1:16). The next thing we’ll hear about is some church having a wrestling match among the staff to increase attendance on Sunday nights (as John MacArthur states in “Ashamed of the Gospel”. Pragmatism (if it works then it must be right) was the problem with the Church in England that Spurgeon so vehemently disagreed with. Must it be our passion to be creative or should our passion be our hungering and thirsting for God and leading others to Him?

First of all, did anyone posting actually address the discussion question:  FOR DISCUSSION:  How do you lead through being ‘consistently inconsistent’?  How do you keep creativity creative?

It seems clear to us that not too many “pastors” posting here are using the creative talents God gave them to reach the lost.  You can assume that Ed is “watering down” the gospel, “tickling ears,” and providing “entertainment-only church” - but have you actually listened to his messages?  There’s no watering down or tickling ears going on.  Rather, he has 15,000+ people coming to Fellowship Church ("the watering hole") every weekend. . . to HEAR THE WORD!!!

I’d venture to say that not many of us can make that claim.

We challenge each of you to hear what the real message of this article is.  Like Randel said, we are to use our God-given creativity (and not “bury our God-given talent") in order to help non-believers receive the food (the Word), swallow it (take it into their lives), and digest it (apply it to their lives).  Then, they will grow.  If they never come to receive the food, nothing else we do will matter.  That’s when we end up preaching to the saved only & letting the rest of the world go to hell! 

Let’s lay down our jealousies (of mega-church pastors & those more “successful” than we are) and our fear (of stepping out of the box - our comfort zone - & trying something new), and be willing to glean ideas for creativity in worship & preaching the gospel, teaching the Word, discipling, outreach, ministry, and everything else the Lord has called us to.

One more point:  if we’d spend more time being creative in our own ministry and less time slamming fellow pastors/teachers/Christian brothers, we would see the Great Commission fulfilled so much more quickly and effectively!!!

So, let’s try again: How do you lead through being ‘consistently inconsistent’?  How do you keep creativity creative?

You are all so very beautiful!  It is such an awesome thing to me whenever I am blessed to read writings like these. I see such an amazing passion and desire for the same goal even though I see emotional expressions of frustration with the chosen methods others may use.  I could be way off base here, and I’m willing to receive correction if I am, but what I am sensing here is that all of us ultimately want to be found giving everything that is within us to the cause of seeing as many as possible come to know Him as Lord and grow as disciples being conformed to His image.

I personally do not desire to find myself devoting any more energy into trying to avoid using Madison Avenue’s marketing techniques for successfully engaging the McCulture in which we live, than I am willing to give to making the highest and most strategic and creative use of these tools.

I come to my philosophy from an academic background in Cultural Anthropology, Theology, Biblical Studies and Counseling, that I have to filter through the presence of the Holy Spirit who is intent on being the guide and empowering force of all that I set my hand to in the name of Jesus.

For me, personally, this means I think about and am compelled to operate according to things like Jesus saying “I do nothing but what I see my Father in Heaven doing”. So I long to connect in the Holy Spirit with what my Father in Heaven is doing as concerns my action and methods.  I’m compelled to realize that His call to those I would be reaching out to in His name, will include His calling them to “come out of the world (ethnos as opposed to cosmos)"and its ways; which means literally to leave behind the spirit and lifestyle of their culture that has dictated their way of life.  So, I want to be sure I do not present a mixed message by calling them out of a life that is ruled by the powers and principalities of their culture, into a Church thatis no less ruled by those same influences.

For me, as a Pastor, I just want to be sure that whatever I do, and whatever extent of creativity I employ as a vehicle of communication, I am, at the end of the day, able to have a real sense of knowing I have His peace, His leading, His anointing and His approval.

This all may sound like a milk toast middle of the road spirit of ambiguous compromise, and should that prove to be true I would want nothing more than His light to shine on my darkness that I might repent.  But until such time, the peace and motivation of my heart says to those of you who choose to brave the waters of culturally mandated creative entertainment as your vehicle for enticing the world to come, “Be blessed and know that you desperately need His presence and Spirit as you Go for it!”

To those of you more deeply concerned with making sure the Gospel is not somehow watered down, tainted or misrepresented in such a fashion as to end up producing religious citizens of an aculturated Church void of the life, presence and power of Christ, I say, “Be blessed and follow the leading of His Holy Spirit while making certain to not allow the letter of the Word to suck the life out of the purity of your own way.”

Two cents worth, so chew up the meat and spit out the fat for sure.

I am not sure I totally agree with all of this.  Whatever we do must be dipped in the Holy Spirit.  I know to some they may say duh.  No not really.  Each message needs to prayed over and pleaded over.  Each activity needs the same thing.  I not sure I look at what the people want, as much as what the Holy Spirit wants.  What the people want changes everyday.  What they want and what they need often are two different things.  Do we want to save someone or please someone?

The opposite of creativity is not routine...it is control.

Creativity is only effective in the church if the leader gives other leaders permission to be creative. If the in-charge leader has to have his/her way in everything, other leaders will either fight, shut down creatively, or leave...none of which is a good stewardship of the people God has given us.