Erwin McManus on “Thinking Differently”

Orginally published on Thursday, October 06, 2005 at 1:00 PM
by Todd Rhoades

Here is part of an interview with Erwin McManus that was featured recently in Relevant Magazine:  RM: When did you start thinking differently about church and the individual?

EM: Well, for one thing, I didn?t grow up churched. I was a good solid pagan. So, I didn?t have to rethink my Christianity. But ... when I came to Christ, it seemed to me that a lot of Christians were out of touch with reality. There would be all these beliefs that were stated as if they were objective realities that no one could argue with, and I?m looking at it going, "You?ve got to be kidding me."

Seminary, if anything, didn?t cause me to move in this new direction. I didn?t find seminary to be the positive training environment that other people talk about; I found a few professors who were extraordinary, and I?m really grateful to them, and they had a huge impact on my life. But overall, the constructs that I learned in seminary are not only irrelevant to ministry, but they?re irrelevant to reality.

RM: You once said, "The Gospel needs to be an underground movement. It needs to read like an independent film." I really connect with this statement. Could you elaborate on this idea?

EM: I think that?s a part of what motivates me in my teaching and writing. Once the Gospel feels mainstream and becomes a nicely organized, orchestrated belief system, frankly, I don?t think there is even an attraction to the human spirit. I live in L.A., and if you want to impress the movie industry, you make a blockbuster movie that makes $200 million. If you want to reach the artist, you create a story that speaks to the human spirit.

Unfortunately, I think the Gospel in America is like a blockbuster, $200 million, Star Wars kind of thing. The irony is that Star Wars has made more than $360 million so far, but I don?t know how many people would say it?s a truly great story. For a lot of us, people are running into our megachurches, and we?re building these massive buildings and we say, ?Look! The Gospel?s a hit!? What we?re not realizing is that yes, people are going to see the blockbuster, but they?re not really buying the story.

RM: How do you think we arrived at this ?blockbuster? style of the Gospel and megachurches?

EM: Well, I have less concern about the megachurch and more concern for the media church?how Christianity is depicted and expressed through television and radio, mostly television. I think in the '80s, Christianity just decided, "Hey, we have enough people to shape American history and shape America?s future through political means" rather than through the spread of the Gospel. That?s where I think we became the blockbuster, when we became the moral majority and we began to leverage things more politically than we did spiritually. I don?t know if we?ve actually recovered from shifting from a spiritual voice in culture to a "moral voice" in culture. I know it sounds crazy, but as soon as Christians start telling non-Christians how to live their lives, we?ve lost the Christian faith.

RM: Has this made people resistant to the Gospel?

EM: No, what you don?t want to assume is that people don?t want guidance. In a recent series, I just dealt with abuse of power, defiance, lust, violence and hatred. I?ve been dealing with really hard-core subjects, as intrusive as possible. The difference is that I?m saying, "Look, you can lead any kind of life you want to, but this is where this kind of life and these kind of choices will take you.?

What I'm trying to get across [at Mosaic] is, ?This is what God is saying about who you are, how God has created the cosmos and how life is to be lived out.? It?s very practical. Ironically, we probably talk more about the character of God than most congregations. We connect everything. Whether it?s homosexuality, lying, stealing?we connect everything to the character of God in that human beings were created to reflect the character of God. We function in the most healthy, powerful and vibrant way when we reflect the character of God.

It?s hard to image, but the heart of God is liberty and freedom for the human spirit. We [Mosaic] are deeply and unashamedly mystical. We?re really about connecting on a deeply mystical level with the Creator of the universe. Seeing the invisible, hearing the inaudible and living a life that cannot be explained. I love that because I didn?t become a Christian because I thought, ?Oh now I can pass the God test when I get to heaven.? I became a Christian because I met God."

You can read the whole article here; or order Erwin's new book on these thoughts (It's called "The Barbarian Way") here at Amazon.com.

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