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From Preacher to Atheist: I Just Lost Faith in Faith
Orginally published on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 at 3:00 PM
by Todd Rhoades
Please excuse the longer post… it is an interesting read by Dan Barker. Dan used to be a pastor; but is now an athiest. I post only because it’s interesting reading; and something we all can learn from. Dan writes:
"My Dad was a professional musician during the 1940's. At one of his concerts he met a female vocalist and, as things go, they went (lucky for me). They got married and, when I was a toddler, they both found true religion. Dad threw away his collection of original Glenn Miller recordings (ouch!), turned his back on his former "sinful" life and enrolled in seminary to become a minister. He didn't finish because of the strong demands of raising three boys. But he lived his faith through his family and through lay ministry in local churches.
My folks' spirituality was so strong that they often found it hard to find a church that met their needs. So we church-hopped for many years. I can't remember all the churches, but we were Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, Assemblies of God, Pentecostals, fundamentalist, evangelical, "Bible-believing" and charismatic... I felt truly fortunate to have been born into the "truth" and at the age of fifteen I committed myself to a lifetime of Christian ministry.
My commitment lasted nineteen years. It gave my life a feeling of purpose, destiny and fulfillment. I spent years trekking across Mexico in missionary work--small villages, jungles, deserts, large arenas, radio, television, parks, prisons and street meetings. I spent more years in traveling evangelism across the United States preaching and singing in churches, on street corners, house-to-house witnessing, college campuses and wherever an audience could be found.
I was a "doer of the word and not a hearer only." I went to a Christian college, majored in Religion/Philosophy, became ordained and served in a pastoral capacity in three California churches. I personally led many people to Jesus Christ, and encouraged many young people to consider full-time Christian service...I was very serious about my faith, and that I am quite capable of analyzing religion from the inside out.
I did not lose my faith, I gave it up purposely. The motivation that drove me into the ministry is the same that drove me out. I have always wanted to know. Even as a child I fervently pursued truth. I was rarely content to accept things without examination, and my examinations were intense. I was a thirsty learner, a good student, and a good minister because of that drive. I always took things apart and put them back together again.
You can read the whole article here...
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Hi... I'm Todd Rhoades. I'm a Christ-follower, husband, father and I love to connect leaders with other leaders. Hopefully you'll find something here at MMI you like and will return often. If you want, you can find out more about me or follow my every step on Twitter.
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Post Your Comments:Yup- I think it is a new apologetics field… dealing with those who were once believers. Bottom line, yup, it takes faith… there’s no way out of it… If our ‘faith’ was based on logic or reason, it wouldn’t be a ‘faith.’
...Bernie
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Bernie, you are right on: “If our ‘faith’ was based on logic or reason, it wouldn’t be a ‘faith.’” Faith is irrational; I think that non-believers like Mr. Barker have the intellectual high ground in these matters. It certainly is a “leap of faith” or it’s not faith at all. Long live the Faith!…
My opinion about this man is pretty simple. I do not believe he was ever saved.
Bobby says:
“Faith is irrational; I think that non-believers like Mr. Barker have the intellectual high ground in these matters.”
No, I don’t think faith is irrational. It just can’t be proven, that’s all.
No, intellectual atheists don’t have the intellectual high ground. How can they when they refuse to see the Creator from creation? Ya right, a big bang, with no intellegence, created this highly-designed system (brains, eyes, dna, etc.)… I think it takes more ‘faith’ to be an Atheist!
This is why Athesists are ‘lost,’ because their “science” is clueless on anything that’s not scientific (such as, what happens after death, etc.). My guess is that the guy will swing back into some sort of non-christian spirituality, since most people are spiritual, even if they don’t believe in God. We are spiritual, as well as material, beings… that’s the way God made us. This guy will turn into a perpetual “seeker,” barring a salvation miracle. By the way, I know someone who left the faith for 30 years, then returned.
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
I will wait until the next shoe drops, when he comes out of the closet.
Is that too cynical? If so I apologize.
We “give up” “loose our faith” or “backslide” for a very simple reason, God convicts us of some sin in our lives and we refuse to give it up. Sounds like his besetting sin was the “pride of knowledge.”
the responses to this guy are pretty interesting...seems like most people are working pretty hard to defend themselves by making sure they are able to catagorize this guy. Long live the “Christians are judgemental” label.
Perhaps another way to read this article is to engage the ideas...not because we agree but because they are real ideas. Chances are that there are people in our churches who think this way and actually wrestle with the questions and ideas that this guy is articulating. Perhaps we could learn from this article how to build a more solid bridge between Christ as those who are wandering.
Guard your hearts, men and women of leadership in Christ’s church...it’s quite a ride down the slope to legalism.
“My commitment lasted nineteen years. It gave my life a feeling of purpose, destiny and fulfillment.”
I am curious as to what IT is.
Matt,
Great answer! I think we all wrestle with stuff like this from time to time. Perhaps not to the degree that Mr. Barker does, but doubt rears its’ head in everyone’s life.
I would like to say that I don’t believe the Christian faith is irrational as was mentioned. Jesus either rose from the dead or He didn’t. There’s nothing irrational about facts. I understand what was meant about faith in that creation can’t be observed, so we see the facts that are available to us and believe that over another theory. Both involve faith because we weren’t there. But the christian faith isn’t a blind faith, it’s an informed faith.
Wow, that was long…
We in the western world have created a “religion of church” in which you can put on the idea of christianity like a jacket. You can get in the flow of church, do church works and even “Pastor” a church without even being redeemed. If you do the right things and say the right things, the slumbering saints will never know the difference.
However, if your relationship and calling is really from above, it takes a life of its own inside of you, becoming the major motivating factor in your life.
In the former manner, when you run out of sermons, out of knowledge and things get stale, there is no-where to go but out. There is nothing inside leading you and even at times driving you in your walk with God.
I think this man found “churchianity” moreso than a true Christian walk. With “Churchianity”, you can walk out and feel relieved, but with true Christianity, you may be discouraged and distraught, but there is always something (Holy Spirit) pulling you and empowering you to walk the next step.
Wow! That was some of the saddest stuff I have ever read.
I would be willing to say there are allot of atheists that are still (currently) pastors.
You can find out by asking just a few simple questions.
Bernie wrote: “No, intellectual atheists don’t have the intellectual high ground. How can they when they refuse to see the Creator from creation? Ya right, a big bang, with no intellegence, created this highly-designed system (brains, eyes, dna, etc.)… I think it takes more ‘faith’ to be an Atheist!”
Bernie, I agree with you; and much of what you write is in accordance with Romans 1:18-23. However, you are ‘begging the question’ from a logical stand point.
Bob wrote: “Both involve faith because we weren’t there.”
Very true. Science looks at evidences in nature to draw conclusions (and one very different from the Creationist world view). And yes, science does not concern itself with God (i.e. supernatural) ideas. Hebrews 11:6 states that “… anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists..” Indeed, if a person doesn’t have faith or believe that God exists, they certainly won’t know/please Him. I’m only trying to point out that the conclusions that have been drawn from science are not rationally unreasonable.
Anyway, I digress… Mr. Barker’s story is sad though.
In reading his article it became pretty clear to me that he was probably never saved to start with. The truth is, being religious and being saved are two completely different things. Saddly he spent his life in church trying to accomplish something that would make him believe in the God he was serving. Kind of funny because obviously he really wanted to believe or he wouldn’t have tried so hard, but what he lacked was faith and without that key to his walk with God he simply had a job in a church. The irony of the story is that God still used him to lead non believers to Christ and the people he led to the Lord will spend eternity in heaven without him which is probably the saddest part of all of it. Some people equate being saved with a sinnless life which is ridiculous but as a pastor who counsels broken people I can say that everyone of them that is saved still loves God even though thier lives are a wreck. Often times their very angry at Him, but you can’t be angry with God unless you believe in Him. My heart and prayers go out to Dan Barker for I hope God will break down the walls of unbelief so He can show him for the first time who He really is. Dan if you ever read this, God still loves you.
John, you’re absolutely right “he was probably never saved to start with.”
and happy to see a fellow presupper in our midst bobby.
Here’s a question for some thought:
Are the people this atheist pastor preached and taught really converts/saved?
Behim asks:
“Are the people this atheist pastor preached and taught really converts/saved?”
The Apostle Paul replies:
“It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”
Philippians 1:15-18
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
What if the atheist preacher preached a false christ and false gospel?
Can someone be saved by a false christ and false gospel?
Maybe this guy realized he had gotten as far as he could in the Christian realm and needed more? If not why would he bother to write about his loss of faith in the paper? He also is the president of this organization that wrote this,and has since wrote many books?
Whatever his motiviation I agree that he probably was never saved and liked the attention for a time a minister gets. It kind of makes me chuckal at irony of how smart he thinks he is, and yet he is to ignorant to see the truth. Although I chuckal a little it does make me sad for him, and his family. Satan is really going to use him to do some damage.
My God forgive him, and may we pray for him.
I have thought about this sad story ever since yesterday, after my first post, this scripture came to me…
... for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world, and has departed for Thessalonica.... 2 Timothy 4:9-10 (NKJV)
Many will say Lord, Lord in that day. But he will say I never knew you.
Performing miracualous signs, castoing out demons, and calling Him Lord is not proof of salvation. P.S. that includes speaking in tounges.
The only proof of salvation is the fruit of ones life, public and private.
Many passages, especailly 1 John and 2 Tim chapter three gives people things to look for in thier lives that indicate if they are saved or not. The only problem is those that say we should not question our salvation cause the false believers to reamin ignorant of thier condition. The Bible clearly states that we should examine ourselves and to work it out.
Here is my initial thought. While it’s true that faith is involved in our religion, too often that is a cop-out to not engage the mind.
Jesus said we’re to love God with all our heart, soul, MIND, and strength.
All to often we’re told to just “have faith.” But I think that’s dangerous. God gave us a mind, and I don’t for a minute think he wants us to have a BLIND faith. Childlike faith that sees the Father as capable (all-powerful) and loving, able to do what he promised? Absolutely. But even Jesus said to not bother being his disciple until you’ve counted the cost.
Christians are too often seen as intellectual weaklings, and to be totally frank, there are too many who fit that bill perfectly.
Why is this? Because we’re conditioned to think that it’s wrong to consider the viewpoints of those who disagree with us.
Thank God for people like C.S. Lewis, Francis Schaeffer, and others today who can discuss honest questions about the reliability of Scripture, the views of Bertrand Russel, etc.
We need more apologists who can discuss things on the same plane as those with whom we’re talking. Paul’s talk in Acts 17 is my prime example.
Also, I noticed that this was written back in 1984. I wonder if he’s still of the same opinion?
Brian
My seminary professor said that God can use a crooked stick. God uses all kinds of people and circumstances to bring us to him. All this to say, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts people of sin and brings them into the kingdom. If the people who accepted Christ under his ministry still follow Christ they are still saved. Loosing this “pastor” to athiesm may make their walk harder though.
Just a thought; I grieve to think that this soul has never really met the master. He writes “ I felt truly fortunate to have been born into the “truth” and at the age of fifteen I committed myself to a lifetime of Christian ministry.”
I see a theme in his writing of never really understanding that it is not about faith as it is about realationship.
His departure from the the faith is perfectly understandable if he never met Jesus.
Lets all pray that he comes to this realization.
Maybe we need to be teaching more about the Saviour and less about the faith?
Just a thought; I grieve to think that this soul has never really met the master. He writes “ I felt truly fortunate to have been born into the “truth” and at the age of fifteen I committed myself to a lifetime of Christian ministry.”
I see a theme in his writing of never really understanding that it is not about faith as it is about realationship.
His departure from the the faith is perfectly understandable if he never met Jesus.
Lets all pray that he comes to this realization.
Maybe we need to be teaching more about the Saviour and less about the faith?
The writer said in fffg.org website “It is only undemonstrable assertions that require the suspension of reason, and weak ideas that require faith. I just lost faith in faith.” Excerpt taking from the link to whole article.
http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=lostfaith
Whoever, the argument is unsustainable because: ...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
Faith is believing in the unseen (God) it has substance (Christ came to save sinners) and that was evident (Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures) and it has hope (Christ will one day return).
Now when Christ returns, He will set the record straight and there will be no more doubting.
So for Mr. Dan Barker to say to his Christian friends that he did not lose his faith but gave it up is silly. In addition, you can’t lose something you don’t posses.
God can use anyone to bring Glory to Himself even if they deny they ever knew Him. IMHO
Dan Barker may claim that he’s a free-thinker all he likes, but the truth is that he creates straw-man arguments which are supposed to show that the Bible contradicts itself. In fact, he devoted an entire chapter to showing these alleged “discrepancies” between the resurrection narratives. If he were TRULY a free-thinker, he would realize how ridiculous his own line of reasoning is. Rather, he has never stepped forth in humility to admit that he was mistaken. I’ve got a 35-page rebuttal of his chapter written to demonstrate the contradictions of the resurrection narratives, if anyone is interested.
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