I have the same question about to use the $130,000 to save those positions. I wonder it the people who lost their job are going to receive any help?  Anyway, I know they are not easy decisions. I decided to pray specifically for the people who have to decide.

I don’t know if the $130,000 is appropriate or not. But I do think 2 things…

1) Regardless of whether or not the church thinks it can afford it, it should do what it believes is right before God. You can’t use your lack or money to decide what is right or wrong. We must use scripture, wisdom and seek God.

2) I don’t think Ted’s situation can be compared to those who are losing their jobs. Certainly they can blame Ted for their job loss, but the truth is that they wouldn’t have had a job in the first place if Ted didn’t plant the church.

What’s wrong with you people?  A prominant figure falls and all you can do is think about money?  You all seriously need to visit DaveRamsey.com.  This is not about money.  You’re no different than E! Entertainment.  Good grief…

There are a few factors here that cannot be overlooked.  First, how well was the church run.  Haggard aside, the church was more than likely top heavy and staffed to it fullest capacity.  Were these positions full time positions?  More than likely not.  Often for financial reasons a church or company will hire part time people over full time people, when a cutback comes the setback to ministry is less as well. 

Haggards severance is not the issue nearly as much as the decline ins giving which could indicate a loss of trust in leadership.  Even without the severance the probability of them cutting back their personnel was likely. 

Additionally, the church owes no job to anyone.  It does not owe employment to people and it is not it’s responsibility so “save the jobs” of people.  It will be too easy to get on a moral high horse if we think this way.  The church has a responsibility to be stewards of God’s resources and they were “on the edge” before the scandal.  Now the scandal has created a decline and you cannot live on the edge anymore.  The reality is that the 130k would have probably extended the employment of these 44 people about a month. 

I do not think Haggard should have received 130k but these issues are connected to the severance.  The cutbacks are the ripple effect of Haggards sinful behavior.  The church is now trying to place the shattered pieces back together with as little collateral damage.  No small task.

Rats!!

Kent beat me to the point (he must be brilliant) anyway, I am guessing that layoffs were being discussed before the scandal. churches almost always overhire during growth with the mentality that “money follows ministry” which is true in principle. another thought is that the giving is only 10% off, that is pretty amazing considering what happened. I am curious as to how much attendance has declined, and with the giving being down a fraction it is obvious that the ministry has discipled thousands of believers to just follow Jesus regardless of the temperary circumstance of the leadership, this is also a pretty good reflection on the present leadership in that they are not (at least publically) spending all of their energy hammering the Haggard’s but they are within the best of their ability trying to move the ministry forward. My biggest concern is that the church will move in fear to hire a new pastor in that they will want some kind of board to control and affirm his or her direction in ministry for the church (I am not talking about being accountable for lifestyle or behavior) I am talking about an unscriptural church government that will decrease this great churches influence in the lost and dying world.  Hire a man or woman of God as Senior Pastor then go with it.

Yes we have to be good stewards of the resources God gives us. My viewpoint is probably different from many of you in that I am a church treasurer (unpaid). My viewpoint is that Ted Haggard was released for cause. He didn’t just commit one immoral act. He evidently lied for years to his board and his church. Do you praise him for the church he built through lies and deception? I am not saying that he should not receive some sort of severance. I just question if a couple of those jobs could have been saved from that severance money.
I am a little surprised at the lack of compassion I’m hearing here for the people who were laid off. I don’t know if any of the layoffs were contemplated before Haggard resigned, but I’m sure the final decision was colored by the 10% reduction in giving which was a direct result of Ted’s deceipt.
As a church grows, it needs to operate a little differently. You look for God’s guidance, but you also need to apply certain business and financial principles. Staff reductions may be part of it, although I think you have to look at all the laternatives before going that direction.
I am sorry for Ted Haggard and his family, but I am even more sorry for the hundreds (or thousands) of people whose faith was weakened by Ted’s actions.

i did not mean that Ted’s chucrh was totally built on lies, but you certainly have to accept that Ted lied and deceived for years. Could it be that Haggard has less to do with building that church than is attributed to him? Did God grow that church in spite of Haggard’s lies? It is entirely possible. What happens next to that church might show which is the truth. If it was built on Haggard’s false charisma, then it will fail. If it is built on the solid rock, it will rebound and flourish.
To more fully explain my viewpoint. I am a lay person serving as the treasurer on a church board. I do tend to look at things from a more financial position than some others. But I hope that doesn’t mean I don’t apply biblical principles in what I say and do.

My prayer is for Ross Parsley and the leadership of New Life.  This is an attempt of the enemy to take down a powerful place of ministry.  Every time some like this takes place, the church suffers great turmoil.  Ted Haggard is in the hands of God and people who are trying to help him.  New Life is experiencing the pain and restructuring of Haggard’s mistakes.  Ross, were praying for you!  God always rises up a servant who will lead in difficult times.  That person is you.

Jim,

ken Copeland? when has he been part of a scandal?

> “Did God grow that church in spite of Haggard’s lies?”

as a member of New Life Church, I am refraining from focusing on the details of what Ted’s sin was or is… we’ve forgiven him, he is undergoing Restoration from trusted leaders, and will no longer be in leadership - those are the key facts. 

Also key is that Ted was called by God to begin the church, and God used him in many amazing ways. Now his sin found him out; we are moving on into the next chapter of God’s story. God’s used this in many ways to help the church re-focus.

I know some of those whose jobs are affected. These staff really are taking it well--counting on God, knowing there will be future provision.

Kristy, you are referring to Ted’s niece Carolyn Haggard. She served as the church’s PR coordinator—she actually left a few weeks ago, I believe it was partly related to stress of the job (dealing with press on this hasn’t been easy).

Ted’s son Marcus Haggard and his wife Sarah still lead Boulder Street Church (BoulderStreetChurch.org), which is a church plant of New Life in downtown Colorado Springs. They are doing really well, barely missed a Sunday since this all began.

Thanks for your prayers, all-- also, my site has other thoughts on this.
-joshMshep
http://www.myspace.com/joshmshep

Hey don--

Certainly understood now that you explain, thanks for the prayers. I didn’t catch all the context of your remark, but thought it was a good starting point to speak to this topic.

now that you bring it up, here’s a quote:
“Though the man of God be wrong, we are not to touch his anointing,” a wise friend of mine recently said. “Remember David and how he respected Saul even when Saul was trying to kill him.”

...that’s a small part of this blog:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=102956282&blogID=196297549

all the best,
-joshMshep

I agree in a way with a post that was made earlier - it’s not really about the money - although we are to be good stewards.

The thing that struck me is that this shows how in churches with a very charismatic person at the forefront - it shows how people can be attracted to the man, rather than the ministry and to God. (I’m not saying that it’s Ted’s fault).

In almost every church, when a popular pastor leaves, so does a certain percentage of the congregation. To me, this is just a reminder that some people attend for the right reasons, and some people attend for the wrong reasons. We need to remember to always point them to the Savior (even though sometimes they might not look that way...).

It’s sad to see those results, but it’s also encouraging to see that the drop has not been severe. It’s a testimony to the commitment of the congregation to the church and not one person.

--Dave