I don’t want to sound like a broken record (here’s something I have said before), but in my experience, if you keep the vision white hot, and make sure everybody knows that you are sold out to it and they should be too, you can and maybe should leave the back door “WIDE OPEN” for people to leave if it’s not for them. We will actually say it from the pulpit!

I have maintained very few healthy relationships with people who’ve gone this way, but it’s worth trying to do.

Well, Todd, I suppose I’m one of the 99%… at least I was, until this morning.  It’s tough leaving the comfort of the masses, even if it is online!

Yes, I believe we have some people who need to leave.  No; actually, they need to actively seek God’s will for themselves, rather than seeking their own way.  Short of that—and all indications seem to point to their never achieving that—they need to remove themselves so that they stop hindering everyone else.  I’ve only been here 2 years, which isn’t very long to effect much positive change; especially for an older church that hasn’t experienced anything different for well over 30 years.  The majority of people are somewhat indifferent to seeing God do something new; there are a few who would like to see him do something, and there are those few who believe that we’re already doing what we should, and God just needs to stay back and let us do our thing.  The few who would like to see God do something new are intimidated, for some reason, by the ones that don’t want God interfering.  I suppose if I had a stronger personality, I’d actively try to convince them to change or leave.  Without any support from others in leadership, though, I don’t see that happening.

If this church is going to throw off the mantle of slumber that has enveloped it, God will have to do something significant.  Frankly, I’m wondering if he’ll keep me here long enough to see that happen.

I think people either need to begin shifiting paradigms or they need to shift churches. Our own church is seeing some great fruit from our small group ministry. People not connected to any chruch have joined, attendance at Life Groups is higher than it ever was for Sunday School and yet there are several people fighting us becasue we are doing something different. We still have Sunday School and Wednesday night, but they are not as emphasized because pepole are connecting in home bible studies. For some reason this is a bad thing in other peoples eyes.

I want these people to stay and get on board. However I am tired of using my energy and the leadership of the chruch to try and keep these people happy. Maybe it would be best if they were to leave. Another interesting note that I have made is that the pepole who feel this way usually are not invested in any ministry area of the church.

I began my 8th year here this month. Five years ago I did a sermon where I went through and did the “You may need to find a new church home if...” We had people who were doing all of the things mentioned in the article. The gist was get on board or find a place you can. I did it again the next year, but with a different format.

And nobody left! The people who were causing the problems thought I was talking about everyone else and vice versa! Now it did energize the body, as preaching to the choir sometimes does. But the problem people stayed until about 18 months ago, and they slowly began to drift away. In most cases they did so without causing a big deal. Most chose to go in the summer or around Christmas vacation.

There are still a few who will stay until they die, but they have virtually no influence. They are “ill-intentioned” dragons with no fire or teeth. They just take up space and smoke the place up every now and then!

Frankly, no! At least that is the case right now. We have had people who “needed” to leave because they attached their own vision or agenda to our church and it was never going to work. I met with those individuals and “invited” them to search for another church in a positive manner. I explained that we were not driven by the same passion and recommended area churches better suited to their vision.

I like what Peter had to say, that is, if the Vision is strong enough and clear; then those who do not strongly agree and fit into that vision need to find a place where they do.  Each church has chosen their leaders, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and God has given them a vision for how they, in the place they are at, can fulfill the Great Commission and Kingdom Vision Jesus so clearly casted.  Each of us have God given personalities, talents, experience and spiritual gifts that uniquely fit us to a congregation which needs what we can provide.  God is not happy with complaining or rebellion so sometimes, as one pastor I’ve had has said, “blessed deletions” are necessary and welcome.

Chuck Davis Sr.

OK, I took your challenge and here is my response.  I am incredibly blessed that I have an eldership team that is 100% committed to the ministry.  Nothing, not even people, can break it.  We had a person not long ago get mad at one of my preschool teachers.  I looked into the facts and found my teacher 100% in the right.  I told the disgruntled person our findings and she, after trying to fight back a little, left the church.  About 3 months went by and she came back to the church with a whole new attitude (praise God.) So yes, sometimes people need to be shown the door.  Thankfully in our church no one needs to find it at this time. - - Tetelestai! - D

Asking people to leave is never easy but we are not just shepherds of people, we are stewards of vision, atmosphere, health of the church and more.  These are all things that if we are not great stewards of we will never keep the vision white hot.  The bible also says warn a divisive person once; again then have nothing to do with them.  Sort of a biblical version of three strikes and you are out.

Nice job Todd! It worked!

First, is the church based on servant leadership?
Second, is the mission, vision, and values clearly presented through various forms?
Third, the goal of the church is discipleship.

The question is, after all the above, what do you do with someone who refuses to play a simple game of “follow the servant leader.” If they are unable to do that, they should probably find another place to serve, but only after all avenues have been exhausted.

Make sense?

There are many churches where God needs to clean house.  Whether that be by us showing people the door or them leaving of their own accord.  Yes, we are shepherds, and just because we let a person leave does not mean that we are letting them leave the flock.  Remember, the church universal is the FLOCK.  Yes, some people need to leave, and the sooner the better.  Maybe your church needs to go from 5000 to 500 before God can do a work there.  I know that may be an exaggeration, but think about it.  My home church went from over 200 in attendance on Sundays to under 30.  And yes, that many people needed to go.  There was infighting and no peace. God did a miracle, and today that church is thriving.  The people that left still go to church elsewhere, and for the most part have found the part of the flock they should be in.

We DID have people who needed to leave - and most of them did - some left well and others did not.  This is a touchy subject for me because (as I said in a previous comment on another blog) I am a “lifer”.  Some of the people who left our church (and NEEDED to leave) were life long friends.  It was painful to say the least.  Some tried to badger the leadership into their way of thinking with treats, mistruth (just say it, lies...) and manipulation.  They gathered like minds together and had “prayer meetings”.  It was really ugly for about 6 months.  The longest 6 months of my life I might add.  I tried arguing with them (big mistake), but ultimately they chose to leave and when they did we (as a staff) decided to send them with our blessing.  We’ve committed to being open, friendly and welcoming when we see them even though it is awkward at times. 

Yes there are folks that need to leave.  The key is having a unified leadership team.  Without that, the pastor is going to be hung out to dry.  We stood our ground, made some mistakes along the way, but ultimately were able to love the people who left as much as those who stayed.  After the dust settled, some have come back with a sweeter attitude. 

The dissenters tried to derail the mission and oust the pastor, but they failed.  The church is stronger and healthier (though somewhat smaller in number) now than before. We are growing again.  There are still people problems, only now they are the problems that come with baby Christians instead of adolescent or adult problems.  I like it that way.

After a pastor, staff, and/or lay leaders make a serious attempt (often requiring repeated exchanges) to communicate with an individual or group, and there is no “meeting of the minds” or willingness to change on the part of the aggrieved; yes, it’s helpful if those people leave a church where they can serve in harmony with the philosophy of the church they attend.

I think the inverse is often true of our churches: people want to leave, but feel they can’t because of the pressure to stay.

Heck, if they want to leave, they must be backsliding, right? Or “losing the vision”, bitter, unable to change, or whatever other reason we conclude, conveniently excluding any possible positive reasons for their leaving. Because, of course, if someone is leaving our church for another, and it isn’t “understandable” (a new job out of state or something), it must be bad. But, just maybe, their reason is positive for their Christian life. That could, but does not necessarily mean something negative about our church!

Why can’t we let people leave gracefully, instead of pressuring them not to leave or “gracefully” making them leave? Why not have both front and back doors wide open? We’re not a gang. We’re not faith in Jesus, but local fellowships together living out our faith in Jesus. Let’s live out our church’s vision, but not project problems onto those who leave. Talk to them. Understand them. Not everyone leaves because of “their issues.” Some will leave because they have issues, but some will leave because we have issues, and others still because they feel called elsewhere.