While I would never endorse plagiarism, I must remember something I heard a pastor say more than 20 years ago:

Only God is original.

Great website, by the way.

In this case, there was already a usage agreement.  However, a brief aside of “A friend of mine...” is due.  Even “adapted” from deserves a nod of acknowlegement.  I would categorize this as a lack of protocol and not so much a BLATENT lie of ommission. 

I think the more important aspect is the character displayed when confronted with such allegations.  A simple “Yeah, Steve’s okay with it but I guess I should have mentioned his contributions.” would suffice.  It goes back to transparency.  The refusal to comment?  Seems more indignant than embarrassed. 

As a ministry couple (an aspiring author with a songwriter husband) we perfer acknowlegement of “intellectual property” (a term I use lightly) and the right to decline usage if we suspect the work will somehow be misused.  We have yet to come across such an instance. Of course no one is beating down the door to for our work...yet!

As for Jade’s “Where’s the effort?” - Rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal!

Another funny thing:  A friend of mine got repremanded in college for not citing a specific section in a paper.  The instructor expected my friend to credit his own previous original work!

I cannot personally imagine a situation where I would ever choose to preach a message that was literally taken “word for word” from what any person had written, including my own writing, let alone that of another.

Sermons that are written out before hand and then preached in a word for word well rehearsed and memorized fashion, regardless of their source, are destined to receive the praise or criticism from men they justly deserve. A work of the flesh will produce its own just reward.

The point I am trying to make here is that the criticism, accusation of plagerism, and judgment of somone who would take the sermon of another and preach it word for word as though it were his own work, is rooted in the very same spirit it is attacking.

This is all about man wanting honor and glory for his efforts.  We can try to dodge this truth by sourcing it in culturally mandated legalities, pulling support from Scripture about giving honor where it is due or the worthiness of a workman, or better yet our responsibility to integrity and avoiding even the appearance of evil etc. But, at the end of the day, His light will shine on our darkness and the motivation of our heart will be revealed.

Woe unto me if I am found seeking recognition, credit, reward, honor or praise from men for anything I write, teach or preach! 

When it comes forth into the air to be heard the only thing that will ever matter is whether or not it is coming forth in and by the Holy Spirit.  If it is, then we all know (or at least should)who is the ONLY one to get ANY acknowledgement as its source!

Can or would the Holy Spirit anoint, empower and work through a message delivered that was produced by an act of plagerism, or written from a self consumed possessive heart wanting praise for its greatness?

I suppose He could, but I think I lean toward believing it is not likely that he would.

In any case, I personally prefer to go to Him in the first place, study His Word, let Him place in my Spirit the thought and concept of what He desires to speak through me, and then allow it to so work in my own life that it becomes meat to me and something I can justify giving to others as I rightly divide the Word of Truth.

I guess I am saying, we cannot give to others what we do not possess ourself. Now, that statement I just made was certainly not original with me. But it is truth worthy of repeating, and I could not care less who was the first man or woman to coin the phrase!

If it is truth, has value, speaks to our heart or in any way accomplishes a purpose of God when we receive it, then give Him Praise!

If it does not...then let it go for it isn’t worth holding on to.  But, if it is not truth, or in any way stands in opposition to the Spirit of Christ, then do not receive it, and if He leads you to do so, bring the necessary correction, admonishment or rebuke.

If it comes from the Lord it is good and it is free and we do not deserve ANY CREDIT even if we are the vessel it came through.
If it originates with us it is at best quite suspect concerning eternal or spiritual value and we’d probably be better off if noone knew where it came from.

So, that’s my two cents on this deal! Or, did I get that from someone else?  Gee, it’s probably a mixture of both, and hopefully some of it from the Lord too!

I have preached many sermons from books or the internet or from tapes and CD’s. I have had my staff split my church and trying to get through it with a mediator of this being two different values. You better whatch your staff and make sure what they say to others about you being the Pastor.

Interesting conversation.  I think the key is authenticity and giving credit.  We need to remember that originality is not the goal of preaching—effectiveness is.  But we need to always have integrity in that and giving credit seems like an easy fix to the problem.

I think Mark Mittelberg speaks well to this issue over on the Willow Creek Association website (one of the places you buy manuscripts and messages). You can read it here: http://www.willowcreek.com/willowmessages/TalkTalk.asp

Beggers,

You did not sound snippy at all.  You seem to have a pure heart.  You did however take what i said and run to an extreme place with it.

I was not making an issue with anyone accepting gifts of love or even royalties from a book, tape or CD.  My issue was with our heart concerning our attitude toward “ownership” of spiritual teaching and the exercise of our ministry gifts.

When I write a book for example; if I believe the Lord has given me something of value to contribute to His Kingdom via that writing, and I desire to make it available for reading by as many people as possible, I am fully aware that I am going to have to go through the process of publication and ultimately marketing (which will produce income)in order to accomplish that goal. My issue is to say, that when I do this, if my motivation is to protect my rights and or to make those profits, then I am invalidating the Kingdom value of what I have written by taking ownership of what belongs to the Lord and not me.

Yes, there is a great difference between archtectural or engineering blueprints etc. and the ministry of spiritual impartation through teaching, preaching etc.

How can I claim rights of ownership to what I have received directly from the Lord for the express purpose of giving it to His people?  Can I suggest this is my intellectual property?  I don’t think so.

I agree that standing my ground here will cause me to have to embrace a certain ambiguity and perhaps even compromise but it will still prove to be a heart issue.

I may write a book, have it published, marketed and even receive income from it, but if you chose to take that material and copy it, write another book using it, publish, market etc. my posture is going to be one of praising God that the message went forth to more people.  NEVER would I enter into accusing you or fighting you over RIGHTS to the content of that message.
This goes for preaching as well. 

I actually have experienced producing a visionary portfolio for a particular ministry that I had carried in my heart for years.  I believe the Lord gave me the vision for it. I sent the portfolio to a very well known man of God who was my professor in Seminary to get his input and suggestions as to how I might best walk it out.  I did not get a response from him but less than a year later I found the entire vision in every detail being manifested and impacting a very large portion of the Church. Yes, this man of God, my former professor, was at the head of that whole ministry and remains so to this day.

Did I experience pain?  Yes!  Did I feel ripped off?  Yes!  Should I have fought against this brother over what he did? Absolutely NOT!  The reason I felt pain and ripped off was because of my own SIN!  I had taken ownership...considered it MY VISION...thought I had the RIGHTS to all of the material from which that ministry was built. 
When Father shined the light of His love upon the darkness of my heart and showed me that I was more concerned with my part in the vision than I was that it actually became manifest and accomplished much in
His Kingdom, it broke me and moved the process of my transformation a little closer to His image.

Anyway, others may fight for their rights to what He gives them in revelation or teaching or homily, but as for me, if I get blessed through sharing what He gives me, Halelujah, if not, Halelujah anyway!

Todd,

Just curious if you remember what Rick Warren said at the Leadership Summit about a guy he ran into in the deepest, darkest reaches of Africa. A guy who was a pastor for a church there who had absolutely no training, and no way to be further educated in preaching and teaching.

They hardly had electricity, and they certainly didn’t have internet, but once a week, he would walk several miles to the closest post office, get on the internet there, and print off Rick Warren’s sermons each week and use them in his church.

He told Rick that he was the only Bible professor he’s ever had.

I realize that is an extreme example for an extreme circumstance, but if the Holy Spirit can use this man from the bush through Rick Warren’s writings, how about the Holy Spirit using other people through such means.

I’m not saying that I’m in favor of plagarism or flat out lieing by saying that a sermon is your own, but if something is really good and your church needs to hear it, and you don’t have anything better…

Which would be the worst crime? Using someone else’s stuff, or giving them something that is not as good by forcing yourself to come up with something else.

Again, I do not endorse plagarism, lieing, or spiritual laziness on the part of a pastor

I think it’s a great idea to find useful resources everywhere.
I think it’s great if someone can find something useful in what I create.
I think it’s horrible to preach someone else’s sermon. Similar ideas - even same “points” may be no big deal. Personally my style is too idiosyncratic for me to have any desire to copy anyone else. It just doesn’t fit my personality.

JCE,

I disagree with you on the laziness thing, most of the plagerism is done out of laziness.

I DO AGREE with you on the prayer issue - a vital and intimate connection with God is essential to be using by God to deliver His message to His people - great point!

JCE,

That’s fine.  Laziness isn’t the only cause - but I have seen a lot of it.  It is OK disagree on things, were all on the same team striving for the same goal.  God bless!!!

hey
great website.  As a bivo pastor there is always a temptation to do exactly this.  Just last week a friend recommended me using a ready-made.  I felt the Spirit impress upon me to respond to him by saying, “who wants day old bread when you can get fresh.” Amen to the faithfulness of God.

If 5 people get saved from me preaching your sermon would you get mad? Say all you want of my sermon I didnt write it GOD did and Get out of the I buisness,I wrote that and I wrote this. You know you guys are actually judging pastors! Whether or not the spirit will move???? what!! come on!!

Singing :
Just build me a cabin in the corner of glory land wait who wrote that????

SAVE SOULS
WIN THE LOST AT ANY COST

Hello Pastor Leaders/Writers:

I have a huge problem with people stealing another man/woman’s work and acting like it’s their own. 

This practice is so prevalent in the body of Christ and no one is really addressing it.  It’s a shame that no one is developing and cultivating a relationship with the Holy Spirit.  Because it is the Holy Spirit that will sing through you, preach through you, pray and write through you.  The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth but no one is asking the Holy Spirit for help or inspiration. 

We would all rather wait to see what is going to flow out of brother so and so or sister so and so and take it and make it our own.

This shows a lack of not only creativity that comes from Wisdom herself but it shows a lack of study of the word and an unfruitful prayer life as well.  Obviously you have not developed a personal satisfying relationship with God through the Holy Spirit and that’s too sad.

Please allow me to remind you that it is the Holy Ghost working in and through us!  Yes! we are co-labourers with God.

I have professors in my doctoral program who stole research ideas and published them as their own.  I have even heard preachers take what I said and use them as their own ideas, thoughts, etc.  God forbid they give me a womanist any credit.  I have even been in the presence of my seminary professors who took what I said and said it a little bit differently and passed it off as their own ideas.

It is a doggy dog world where everyeone wants to shine and doesn’t care who they hurt or steal from. 

Obviously, God has not gifted you in this particual area so what is one to do?  I am glad you asked.  Find your sphere of influence where your annointing abides and stay there.  My Grandma Jessie Mae would say it like this..... find your lane and stay in it.

For it is written Jeremeiah 23:30 “ See, thereofre, I am against the prophets/preachers, says the Lord, who steal my words from one another.”

This scripture was given to me by an old man who had properly discern that people especially in the body of Christ were stealing from me.  He gave me this scripture and I stand on it.

Seek God for your own truth, ideas, witty inventions, etc.  He is no respector of persons.  If he gave Pastor ? an awesome message, book title, etc.  He will do it for you - if you seek Him.

Much peace!