I am interviewing for a ministry opportunity next week, and I am a little uncertain about how to handle the issue of salary. What are some good ways to be frank about my needs without seeming greedy or ungrateful?

Unfortunately, I don’t think that the five items mentioned above really say much at all about setting staff salaries.

I agree with Drew on the needs-basis, but also don’t see much wrong with using some elements of “marketplace values” either, as long as we understand the value of what values we are using.

We must remember two things:
(1) God is responsible for the results, not us - remuneration based on results is Biblically unsound.
(2) When the church calls someone into fulltime ministry, they are implicitly making a promise to meet all the material needs of that family.  For a Pastor’s spouse to have to work just to make ends meet means that the church has violated their committment to that family (especially if they were expecting “two for the price of one.")

Most Pastors come out of seminary with a truck load of debt, and have usually given up very lucrative careers (or possibilities of such) to serve God in the local church.  Boards (or Personnell committees) should take account of the seven years of education required to get through seminary, plus the usually higher cost of such education.  Salary should be suffcient to allow the Pastor to live IN the community they are serving in and not have to commute because of cost of living (how does that foster community?).  These things MUST be taken into account when hiring staff.  How can we expect to keep pastors long term if we pay them like short term employees?

Churches want to “have their cake and eat it too” in that they want to hire as many staff as they can, but pay them as little as they can.  We should reverse this - pay your staff as much as you can (what is right, not what is affordable) and hire only as many staff as you can afford!

Four major differences betweent male and female ministry leaders.

1) Males receive higher salaries even though credentials are the same.
2) Females consistantly prove to have more responsibilities than their counterparts.
3) Females are expected to earn any “rights”, “respect” and “priveledges” while these are inherently given to males.
4) Elders and other male staff continue to look down on female ministry leaders. They respond to females similarly to Sunday School teachers.

We have come into a peculiar situation in my mainline denomination: we have a clergy shortage.  The result is that in my region more recently “called” clergy are being paid about $20k more than existing clergy – regardless of credentials or track record.  Pay scales are set as “minimum required pay” based on church size and years of service.  We are trying to raise these minimums 10% for 2006 – so that we can approach some degree of equity.  Lots of resistance to the 10% increase, though.  However, if the existing pastors left these churches, the newly called pastor would be paid a good 30% more.

This is truly a “market place”, with demand and supply at work.  Churches now need to pay clergy enough so they don’t leave (unless that’s what the congregation wants).

Barring a situation such as this, I believe church staff should be paid a reasonable salary, which reflects what similar work pays in non-profit organizations.  Increases should reflect cost of living and merit.  Merit should have to do with how well the individual’s performance reflects the core values of the church.  And absolutely: people should be paid enough to be able to live in the community they serve.

I am not complaining about my salary.  But I would complain about the way I have been treated, (not my current appointment).  One church treasurer looked at my total package, pension, health insurance, and acted as if this was the total I was receiving.  Forgetting I get no help on social security.

I find they often have no idea how many hours I put in, often not getting a complete day off.  That is the nature of what I do, I know this.  But when some members act as if I do not work except half a day on Sunday it makes feel unapprecated and resented.

I struggle (like many americans)to pay my bills.  Yes some of my members in the past act as if I were Bill gates, even though my son got free meals at school based on our family size and income.  Give me a break!!!

We are going to a new ministry position next week, so praise the Lord all of this will be behind us, but here is how our current church salary experience has gone.
My husband was a single man when he took this full time job 6 years ago. Now he is married with a toddler, and his weekly salary has only increased $40 in 6 years. Yes, they pay our insurance, but we are definitely getting the short end of the stick on the salary end. Many times we have had to put groceries on our credit card, or we wouldn’t have had them. We also had to take out a loan for a large amount of money earlier this year to get our car back from the mechanic. Not to mention having to rent vans for trips and pay for gas with our credit card, and usually having to pay the bill before we were reimbursed, meaning more debt for us. We have suffered in silence for the most part, because we knew it wouldn’t change even if we asked. Our church recently hired a retired pastor as a part-time interim SP, and he came in making over $100 more a week than my husband who is full time paid staff! We drive used cars, one of which isn’t even running now, because it needs work. I choose not to work b/c we feel my job is to be at home raising children, not passing that buck to a daycare so that I can work to pay for daycare.
Several members have made the comment since my husband’s resignation, “we know you need more money, you have a family now, you need a bigger salary, etc...” and I just want to scream… He didn’t just wake up one morning with a wife and child on his doorstep - Our daughter is almost 18 months old, and in all that time, no one, except our SP said that we needed a pay increase. When he made the suggestion, it was voted down by the finance committee. He hasn’t gotten a raise in 2 years.
As I said, we are moving on next week, and our new church looks to be much better about compensating the staff. Churches should keep in mind that financial strain at home makes strain everywhere else. Your pastors and their families shouldn’t have to worry about being able to afford groceries.

Clergy pay.  What an interesting topic.  I “employ” a significant staff (35 including a christian school).  Our salaries are set quite simply. We don’t look at the budget first.  We determine what the proper level of staffing is and then challenge our congregation to provide the necessary income to pay a decent living wage.

1. We research the market to get an idea of what the position pays.  There are plenty of internet resources and books that have been written to show what the market is for ministry personnel. This assures that we are paying a living wage with the appropriate benefits for this field of work.
2. We make a basic adjustment for the area we live in (It takes about 30% more to live in the Chicago area than Jacksonville, FL)
3. We give raises on merit only.  Cost of living is only a reality in government jobs and in those few business who choose to do so. The size of ones family has nothing to do with how we pay our staff.  I don’t get a raise from my boss when I have a child if I’m a plumber, or manufacture widgets.
4. Evaluations are made yearly which will readily explain why a person is getting a raise or not.
5. All of our staff are lovingly told that if they can get a better offer, they have a right to seek it out. If we weren’t paying market rate, then we know that we can expect some turnover.
6. Good stewardship is absolutely essential to live on ministry wages. Church budgets can only accommodate so much salary.  Pastors get many perks that they wouldn’t get if they were in a secular environment.  There are often special offerings taken for birthdays, anniversaries, Pastor Appreciation month etc.  Extra income often comes in from weddings, and funerals.  And it is not uncommon for people to pick up the tab when you are invited to lunch or dinner.

This is the reality of ministry.  Churches should pay a living wage and then the minister can trust God for the rest.

It is interresting reading all the comments on church staff compensation.
I think we need to re-think this whole subject and look at what the basis for needing that person is in the first place.
We can argue all day on the “on the market place salary” compared to the “needs based salary” but bottom line is no matter what we pay someone who is “called” to ministry they must fulfill thier calling. 
We need to reconize the difference between a hirerling and a truly called minister (man or woman).One works for a position and the other works for the God they serve.  Yes we are all human but our humanity can not be a reason to forsake our calling.
I have work as an unpaid staff member and a paid staff member.  The thing I had to keep in mind is it is not the people writing the check that called me it is Almighty God and He wrote through inspiration “do not muzzle the ox that treds the grain” He also said “a worker is worth his wage”. 
If you go over to the priestly pay of the old Testement you will find a way of paying that the priests would never have lack.
When the temple suffered the whole community of believers suffers.
WE need to get off our oppions of how much is enough or not enough and do as the scriptures say to do and thats take care of the men/women of God that are sent to us.  It is not for a commity to judge what is good enough it is for God to provide the man/women that is sent.  At one time in the new testement Jesus said to the diciples not to take purse or cloat and in another area he told them now is the time to take purse and coat. 
The issue really boils down to this: is the church going to rise up and be the church and take care of the men/women God is sending to them and stop scobbling over $40 dollars a week or what ever the figure. 
In my life when i was not a paid staff i owned my own business and out of that business i made sure that the man who was sent to us was taken of (He did not have to worry about money) I did it through the church and never made mention of it or made it an issue butduring that time great thinngs happened I believe because God honored our giving as a church to Him(God) first and secondly to taking care of the one God sent to us to Equip us to do the works of service.(for pay or not for pay)
We need to look at a whole range of variables to determine the worth of a wage but buttom line is what are we saying to first God, second our leaders and thirdly the world if we don’t take care of the ones we are suppose to recieve and asking others to recieve. 
WE dont mind spending a 100.00 to take our family out for a ball game and it does not bother us to see a sport star spend Gods money on drugs, cars, and other unnessary things. 
WE go out to a nice dinner and expect a wonderful meal with great service and then we pay a large amount to recieve that with a tip.
As long a our house is full of furniture and our car is at least almost new and shiny we have food in our freezer and the things at work are going fine we will tip the pastor
Hog Wash
God is not pleased with that and it show in the lack of zeal, spiritual revival, and lack of life in most stingy churches across this globe.
When are we going to get off our plush pues and get on our face and repent for our pride, selfishness, and greed in the church.
If we will do so His word says he will heal our land and with healing comes blessings.
I’m not talking about money I’m talking about the blessings of our families and our lives being put back into order.
Yes every staff member needs to be properly compesated but that is based upon Gods principles not our opionion or a market annalsis
If every man and woman will do thier part it will be easier for the ones sent to us to do thier part.
Go read Ephs. 4: 11 and 12 /
and then search the scriptures for What God says about taking care of those people and you will find a standard that can not be based upon a need or a market place but strickly on obedience to God,

I agree with Drew in his assesment of need based salary. We as minister’s should be receiving a salary not because we’ve earned it like a job per se, but inorder to free us to do ministry. If we have to worry about making ends meet because of an inadequate salary compensation, then we will be conflicted and maybe even have to get a part-time job. And that will rob us of needed energy, time and focus for what is most important, our ministries. My last ministry position did not compensate me for an additional degree, innovative programs and a lot of hard work requiring hours away from my family. The Sr. Pastor held the purse strings, which I think was wrong. I feel the Deacons or finance ministry should be the ones to evaluate salaries with input from the Sr. Pastor and the entire Pastoral staff. Salaries became a guessing game of whether we were or weren’t going to get any and if we did how much, based on what?! The sad thing is prior to the new Pastor we had a very workable system based upon a salary schedule connected to the ECOLA rate at the public schools. A built in incentive percentage increase was given when a pastor demonstrated innovation in a new program, earned a degree, demonstrated sacrifice in his ministry, even longevity in some instances. Everyone felt valued and apprecaited because increases were not controlled by one man, and the system was easily understood and less likey for favoritism or manipulation could happen. Salaries are a senstive subject, but in ministry the emphasis is upon honoring the Lord and His people. The call to ministry is often difficult enough, but for a minister to not be adequately compensated for the sake of his family and needs, then the system needs to be changed. I’ve observed often a lot of waste in ministry. Some of this “waste” in programs could be cut back inorder to adequately compensate your pastors and minsitry staff. My former pastor, before the most recent one, followed these three guidelines for spending money: Staff/Programs/Facilities. And it helped keep everything in a proper priority. When Facilities or even programs come before staff, the whole thing shuts down. Staff is the key to ministry growth and health. If paying them what their worth is tricky, then pay them what they need for freedom’s sake. Set them free for ministry.

Scripture says the Lord will provide. I believe that’s in all circumstances, including fulltime church work. Let me tell you my situation…

In a church of 200 with 7 fulltime staff (yes 7!). The church has hired unqualified workers to do the responsibilities of the pastor, so he can have time to do “other more important things”. (If you don’t understand that, welcome to my world-neither do I). Our annual budget now consists of over 80% of all finances coming in to pay for staff. The remaining 20% goes to operating costs (mainly facilities). NO money for ministrys whatsoever (btw-the church has gone from 1100 to 200 in the past 3 years because of poor staffing). In fact, the church has been cutting staff benefits, along with no pay increases at all, for the past 4 years, just so they can keep the pastor content.

I gave up being a CEO of a very large corporation to work in the church fulltime, knowing in advance that church workers worked very long hours for sometimes unreasonable pay. Why do I do it?

Because I love the Lord. He’s placed me in a situation (maybe not what I think would be the best) where He needs and wants me to be to help expand His Kingdom.

Anyone want to trade positions?

I’ll refer to my previous post for guidelines, but all talks of salaries, benefits etc. are taken care of prior to the hire.  When a person come to work on our staff it is their choice to work for the predetermined, negotiated salary.  Once they are here, it is disingenuous to talk about not getting paid enough since their job description and their salary was all talked about up front.

While there are extenuating circumstances that may require a “bonus”, a “benevolence bailout” or a special blessing as appreciation, too many ministers take a position without inquiring of these things prior to the appointment and then cry sour grapes when things don’t turn out to their liking.

If you want to get paid the equivalent of a 6 figure executive, you know where you can go to work.  If you want to be in ministry, there is a decent liveable wage you should expect and you labor gratefullly and in humility, trusting and thanking God for the privilege.

It’s funny, as a pastor and the husband of a public school teacher I hear the same comments from a multitude of people (although in fairness our current church provides very graciously for us, and I have no complaints with them, thank the Lord). I find it very interesting how people who complain about how others are compensated tend to be the same people who would never tolerate the same treatment if it were themselves or their family.
I found myself very disheartened by this list. And began formulating a response to this article (first time posting, so do I get any sort of prize Todd?), and in the process I came across a great article online that started off like this:
“If you were an employer, would you run a sweatshop? You know—the kind of place where you get workers on the cheap, pay them as little as you can, and force them to work long hours overtime without any compensation at all, just to keep their job? Of course not!” http://www.joyfulheart.com/church/sweatshop.htm
The article continues with a great answer to how to really treat the minister of God correctly. It’s a great article and I would suggest it to you (I didn’t read any of His other stuff, so I can’t speak to anything other than just that article)

Three questions that I have and then a quick thought (had to put it into some sort of preaching outline).

1. If you put in the level of training and work the hours that an average minister serves would you begrudge them fair pay?
2. If you honestly believed that you had to answer to Christ for the way in which you pay his under-shepherds would you still cheat the laborer?
3. Will the church ever confess that pride causes us to hold on to God’s things as though they were mine things, causing us to fail our master?

Now for a quick thought:
The list mentions that ministers and staff should earn holidays and not be given them. However, haven’t the holidays already been earned by the men and women who gave themselves for us (Memorial day, Independence Day) and by those who have labored for our land (Labor day), and by a Savior who gave Himself for us (Christmas and Easter); maybe that’s why it’s a good idea to GIVE all ministers and staff to have a Thanksgiving Day to remember and give thanks.

Ok…I’m done

On the subject of salaries, there are some important presuppositions I think are key to bring into this process. 

First of all, ministry at any level is a uniquely challenging field that calls for a diverse array of gifts.  Very few other careers require individuals to excel at being social worker, coach, motivational speaker, scholar, visionary, politician, manager, organizational development expert, chaplain, diplomat and spiritual leader, all at the same time.  Pastors are very special people with incredible abilities. 

Anyone brave enough to swim in these shark infested waters is an amazing person.  Like no other job, in ministry our customers are also our volunteer co-workers, who are also our supervisors; and they are suppose to be our friends, too!  How many other careers require balancing those dynamics? 

Then there’s the educational expectations. In general the benchmark for academic training is the M.Div, or at least an MA. 

How many people in our congregations would expect to have to complete 3 academic years of expensive, debt-producing graduate school, followed by an extremely underpaid internship of a year before they could be viable in their chosen career field?  The answer is very very few; and if they did, they’d expect to be extremely well paid for it. 

Also, there is the important role that spiritual leadership should play in our culture.  The people who bring us to God, as pastors or missionaries, and lead us in advancing His kingdom are doing an enormously important task; I dare say more important than people who swing sticks at balls, and are well remunerated, indeed! 

So we have highly capable, talented people, who have achieved exceptional levels of education, leading us in what is the most important area of our live. 

It stands to reason that they should be very well paid, with much higher than average salaries. 

Beyond that, if pastors work hard at their calling and demonstrate a high level of excellence in their work, then its important to give them consistent raises. 

Anyone with a family has a continuing source of needs to be met, and has to have an increase in income to meet those needs.

Many pastors work very hard sowing and harvesting in rocky soil.  Their income and raises shouldn’t be based on numbers of people in a ministry, but on the commitment and integrity they bring to the task of serving the Lord and His congregation.