Lynn had a good point on June 29 - “Some people at church have complained that it is too expensive to provide us with basic health insurance benefits. Yet these same people live in $500,000 homes and give their own kids the best (and most!) of everything.”

The church that I pastor cannot afford to pay me much, however, I AM full-time. We are very small - (25 avg). Actually, some Sunday’s they don’t even make my weekly slary in the offering. However, they run on this principle - they want me to be free of financial concern so that I can concentrate on ministry. They’ve been very upfront with me about the financial situation, so I have been very open and honest with them about my needs.

This January, I told the church treasurer to withhold an additional amount from my salary for health insurance, as the premiums went up. This meant I would have less take-home pay. While I never asked for a raise, the church voted to give me one porportionate to the increase of my insurance cost. They even reimbursed me back pay to the start of January at the new rate! Even though I told them afterwards that they didn’t have to do this, they still did.

They also have said that they would not want to pay me any less than they would want to live on themselves. I think that’s a good principle - a principle Lynn was alluding to. When people in the church start complaing that we’re paying the pastor too much, and they live in luxury - ask them if they’d like to live on what we make.

While I am able to be full-time, our needs are met, and the Lord has provided (financially and with wisdom) so that we are actually able to put away some money each year. I’m not paid alot - our kids insurance is on the state medical card - but our needs are met. I am very thankful for their wisdom and sensitivity and their provision.

I guess what I appreciate the most is their openness and their understanding. They have been wonderful.

David S says:
“I’m not really complaing or “blowing off steam” I guess I’m just saying that I wish more churches would be more aware of this. It would greatly help with “burn-out."”

Why don’t these Pastors make their own stand? They have a brain.  They have options.  Why not move on if they’re not happy?  If they can’t take their enviornment, then maybe they’re not the right one for the job… someone else would fit in...?

...Bernie

Bernie, I agree with you. The pastor should say something. However, most will not as you know.

Many remain in this unfair position because they have a heart to serve - and don’t want to move from where they are planted.

I guess what I was getting more toward is how unfair some bi-vo’s are treated by their churches. None of the parishoners would want to have that kind of schedule, but they require it of their pastor. But, for some reason (meekness??) many never take a stand.

I personally turned down a bi-vo church because they wanted me to work full-time for part-time compensation. With a family I would not try to keep that schedule. But, I have a friend who took a bi-vo church. He’s pretty happy - so I guess it’s one’s perspective as well.

I’m surprized that no one has cited the Scripture that authorizes performance increases. In fact, quite a hefty one! “Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine” (I Tim. 5:17). The following verse makes it clear this doubling of “honor” is addressed through their compensation.

Les says:
“I’m surprized that no one has cited the Scripture that authorizes performance increases. In fact, quite a hefty one! “Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine” (I Tim. 5:17). The following verse makes it clear this doubling of “honor” is addressed through their compensation.”

Sorry, Les, you got that from the prosperity teachers, not the Bible.  Look at how the early church lived. It was commune style.  Even Paul was what they call a tent-maker; he worked to support himself making tents.  It’s too bad the greedy, like Benny Hinn & Pastor John Hagee, have decieved so many-- getting rich by shearing the sheep… with their million dollar compensation packages… I hope you look into it more…

If anyone really, seriously, believes that Jesus is returning VERY SOON, they would live radically different lives… like the early disciples.

Luke 12:
32"Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

...Bernie

I’ve been serving as Minister of Music in the same church for 14 years. The question of deserving pay has never come up. The senior pastor and board all agree I am very worthy of my hire and have never said anything derrogatory about my “performance” here. 

The main issue always centers on what is “appropriate” compensation.  We have a small board, 3 men, and they each own their own small businesses.  At one point, one board member told me he couldn’t see paying church staff more than he pays his employees (construction trade) since they work for their money. In their businesses the objective is to keep the overhead low so the bottom line looks great each year.  In a church, the staff is basically the product we offer.  It is the staff’s time and resources that are “sold” to the congregation.

Over the last 5 years the board has given across the board raises of 1% to 1.5% for “cost of living”.  In our area the cost of living has grown more than 15% in the last 3 years.  Since insurance costs have gone up, we’ve lost coverage to keep the bottom line looking good.

Our church is the second largest protestant church in a 50 mile radius and our attendance on Sunday is well over 1500.  The annual budget is extremely above the norm for churches our size while our staff load is below average for our size. 

This all came to a head here last month when a small church in a community 200 miles from here called to ask if we could refer someone to their church to take a music minister position (same state, lower cost of living).  They were not offering me the job as they knew they couldn’t afford what my “large” church was paying me.  To make a long story short, what they wanted to offer as a “beginner” salary for someone without experience was $20,000 more than I make now and they’re offering better benefits.  That church is one-tenth our size.  That church also said they would pay more if the person had experience.  When I asked what level that was, it is more than our senior pastor currently makes.  To make matters worse, we had a gentleman here to speak to our church about being Christian with your finances.  No, he didn’t speak on the prosperity issue, but he did speak common sense.  The pastor and I went to dinner with him to discuss the salary problem I mentioned earlier.  He asked what the church currently paid me and I told him.  He looked at my pastor and very frankly told him that I would be better off selling my house and moving to a different community and earning minimum wage because I would have MORE money at the end of the month.  He also told my pastor that he was the one responsible for this, not the board.  It has been a difficult blow to him.

I am not looking to leave my church.  I fully enjoy the opportunities I have here.  This church allows me more creativity than I could have ever imagined.  Also, I have never asked to live in a gated community, put my kids in a private school or drive a new car.  I do think, however, the church is responsible to provide a salary that is comparable to what similar secular positions pay.

Am I asking too much?

Greg,

I don’t think you’re asking too much. I think you revealed one of the problems at your church (in this area) when you disclosed what that board member said. Your board members want to run the church like their businesses - they see the church as a business, rather than a ministry.

I would like to ask - how much does the church give toward missions? Is is porportionate to your salary, the senior’s salary? Or, is it a lot more or less? Have they increased missions giving along the COLA lines as well? That might shed some more light on how the board and the church views their finances.

I guess the hard issue is how to bring up this subject of pay - after all, according to 1 Tim 3:3, we’re to be free from the love of money. In the eyes of many, if we ask for a raise to have fair compensation, that means we’re more concerned about money… It’s a double-edged sword.

Also, what that board member said about his employees “working for their money...” really disturbs me. It shows what he thinks about pastors - and to me, it shows a lack of respect.

I know as pastors, we’re not to be argumentative, but I think I would have point blank challenged his statement right to his face and asked him just what he thinks ministers do all week (and I’m not really a confrontational person, either.) Maybe he needs to be challenged.

Maybe he needs to be challenged to write and present a 3 point outline, expository, Sunday morning sermon to see what pastors have to do each week. After all, we just sleep in and play golf all week and then get up and talk about the Bible for 30 minutes on Sundays, right??

Sometimes challenging someone to walk a mile in the other person’s shoes is beneficial. It’s never an easy matter.

Keep hanging in there. Personally, I’m happy to see that you’re wanting to stay where you see your ministry flourishing.

I have been in the ministry 10 years.  I have been at my current church 7 yrs. 6 mos.  I have only received one salary increase since I have been and that was about 2%.  My wife is not physically able to work but she has been PT church secretary for about 3-4 years now.  She was being paid a very small amount for this job.  The church has had to do a lot of necessary repairs on the church in the past few years.  We haven’t asked for a raise because we know they can’t afford it.  She even gave up her salary to help the church out.  It hasn’t been easy these past years making ends meet and the past few years my wife’s health has not been good and our medical expenses have been more.  We are having to dip into some money my father left me at his death to pay bills.  We thank God we have this extra money to do so.  I approached the head of our church board about a salary increase last year and the response I got was, you have to ask for one.  Is that how it is at most churches, you have to ask for it?  On other jobs, would one have to ask for a salary increase?  This fall I am going to ask for an increase in mileage because they only give me $100 a month milegage reimbursement.  I usually have to turn the extra milegage in on my income taxes and that is usually over $2,500 a year.  We are currently looking for another church.  How and when should one ask the search committee how they give raises? I want to know up front how they handle salary so I will know if I want to proceed with the church.  Any ideas out there?