So between apathy or doing something… which did these Christians choose?

I used to live in Kalamazoo, and I’d drive by that sign often without ever praying for the girls stripping, or the men going in, or the households being impacted by it.  I just didn’t bother with it because I was on my way to work the five jobs I was holding down to pay the rent and take care of my family… because a church had laid me off because of personality differences.

Don’t worry, I’m healthy and serving again.  But something tells me there is more wrong with the church (myself included) than these signs.

We had a billboard ministry for a few years.  We tried different approaches.  ALL WERE CRITICIZED.  I won’t repeat the calls...and some were from “concerned Christians.” The truth is being a Christian and being a community of Christ [often with a building] is offensive.  We offend non-believers by our existence as we remind those who are lost that there is a God.  A God who will hold them accountable for their sins unless they repent.  Sometimes we must be like the old prophets and stand up and warn people of sin and its consequences.  Sometimes we must be like a tender mother nursing a hurting child who must tell the child that the medicine for their sinful soul is Christ.  One other aspect over looked is the autonomy of the local church.  If the local church is led by the Holy Spirit to put up a sign that says, “Adultery is sin....” then who are we to judge.

I wonder if the harshness (perceived or otherwise) of these messages compare to when Jesus said:
“And if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.  And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.” Matthew 5:29-30.
Maybe it was OK because he said it outside the continental US???  Thank you Jesus!!

Nik, you have expressed something that I’ve long believed.  Many people don’t have trouble with Jesus, but rather with the Church and how we have presented Him.

Zad & CS –

I really can’t see from your responses to me yesterday how you showed Jesus ever used methods similar to taking out a billboard to point out the sins of people he’d never personally encountered.  His prophetic words to the Pharisees, broods of vipers, might correctly be said to the Christians who put up the billboards, whitewashed tombs who point out the sins of others but unwilling to acknowledge their own. 

There is no evidence from scripture that the people I mentioned expressed conviction until AFTER their encounter with Jesus.  For the purposes of this discussion CS, what I mean by the term “relationship” is at the very least a personal encounter.  Except for the Pharisees, who were not the average pagan on the street, Jesus never pointed out sin without encountering the person.  The story of the rich young ruler isn’t about how his chariot drove by a sign that convicted his heart but he was unwilling to respond, it is a story about his encounter with the living and breathing person of Jesus.  Same with the story of the woman at the well (though I disagree that the conversation started on a sour note, BEFORE Jesus told her about her many husbands, he offered her living water so she would thirst no more.

There is nothing prophetic about taking out billboards to point out the sins of the community, unless it is an example of Ezek 16:49, which reminds us that the sin of Sodom which was despicable to the Lord was that “she and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

Wendi

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar...that’s all I’m sayin’…

Just a few questions for those of you who think that the signs are wrong (and I’m not necessarily saying I disagree with you): are you standing outside of strip clubs, befriending the people going in?  Are you standing outside of abortion clinics, preaching the Gospel to girls who are about to kill their babies?  When was the last time you went into a gay bar and started telling the patrons, “Jesus loves you”?

If your answer to any of these questions is “no,” then what are you doing to bring those people to Jesus?

Just something to think about.

Wendi:

“Now, if you can an example where Jesus started His encounter with a person (except for the Pharisees) by pointing out their sin, I will be happy to reconsider.”

James 4:6 says that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.  This was how Jesus reached out to people here on earth.  When someone came off as arrogant, He would slap them with the Law.  When someone was humble or their sin was already exposed, He offered them grace.

So, looking for examples where Jesus pointed out sin by bringing up the Law and sin pretty quickly in some way, shape or form:

-The Rich Young Ruler (Luke 18:18-25).  This conversation was all about keeping the Law, and Jesus exposed how his wealth was an idol to him.  He brought up his sin pretty quickly here.

-The Woman At The Well (John 4).  The conversation started with Him asking her to draw water, and she replied back, “How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.” In other words, “Just who do you think you are?” which is a pretty proud statement.  And then after the offer of living water, He clearly showed her her sin.

-Reproving The Lawyers (Luke 11:45-52).  Here, amidst Jesus talking with scribes and Pharisees, a lawyer speaks up to Him, and gets a thorough smackdown.

And, although you discounted the encounters with the Pharisees for some reason, those occasions are also perfect demonstrations of laying down the Law and exposing sin as well.  Just because they had a special place as the religious leaders of the day does not apply to an exemption from listing them as well and applying that to today’s world properly.

Also, don’t forget the parables, which were spoken in the presence of others, kind of like a sideswipe.  Reflecting back to the focus of this post, the church could have put up a sign that said, “Would you be proud of your web browsing history?” next to the strip club, to emulate that concept.

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CS

liberation...I’m not a liberalist in the sense as it is defined today… but I do agree with Jesus method of liberation… Jesus liberated the people in whom He came in contact with from their sins… and in order to be liberated from something you first must define what that which has you in bondage… like C.S. once stated, Jesus often used the situation to dictate the outcome… and in this case the situation is a perfect time to warn about the end result of the sins… if you are baking in your kitchen and your child walks toward the stove… are you going to let your child get burned and then say I love you… or, are you going to warn your child not to touch the stove because its hot and you’ll get burned? I’m afraid far too many are using the first method and allowing too many to get hurt and then covering it up with God loves you… instead of warning the people the danger that’s ahead…

I’ll be suspect of a person who tells me they love me in Jesus name and fail to warn me that death is knocking on my door…

I’m afraid the church has become a social club where many come to be entertained and leave worst than what they came in… The Bible is our tool for reaching the lost… any other way is reaching them in vain… Jesus said, “He who builds on His Word builds on a solid foundation...” the problem isn’t the Word it’s the christians lack of putting the Word into operation… It’s the Word that saves not how personal you’re with the people… if we try to save others than Jesus dying would be in vain… but we’re to present people the Word and allow God to do the saving… He commissioned us to go into the highways and byways and Preach His Word…

Wendi,

Listen to these sweet words of blessed assurance

“Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, AND HAS GIVEN US THE MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES TO THEM and has committed us to the word of reconciliation."2nd Corinthians 5:18-19

Brothers and sisters,

Do we have hearts for, and testimony to the utterly absurdly and ridiculously surpassing extravagance of the grace of God. After Jesus is resurrected and He confronts the man who betrayed Him, He asks, “Do you love me?” and enjoins Peter as a consequence to feed his flock...AFTER JESUS HAS ALREADY FIXED BREAKFAST ON THE BEACH.

The testimony of the scripture is the heart of God unreasonably, recklessly, with utter abandonment desiring, seeking, drawing the heart of sinners to Him.

He isn’t anywhere depicted as a careful moralist stroking the long white beard and running a socratic chatechism: Do you know your sin? DO you confess your sin? Do you accept my death as your only atonement? (For extra points, “Was the work atonement completed on the cross on Friday or in the ascension on Saturday?)

Jesus responds to the criminal next to him who says to Jesus “remember me” with the blessed assurance that hthat criminal will be in Paradise with Jesus that day.

No confession, no Jesus prayer: Just, bam, you’re in the kingdom...I hear Him croaking aout of hHis parched throat, “Father I got the last one you had for us on my way up” And the angels danced and the seraphim sang and got fresh white togas and comfy slippers.

Rev. K, and CS and all my other dear ones, IN ATHENS, Paul went to Mars Hill after wandering around Athens with its 200 plus idols and HE DIDNOT open his sermon with the fact that the Athenians were idolators, IN FACT TALK ABOUT GILDING THE LILLY, PAUL SAYS, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things I see you are very religious.” Check it out Acts 17:22. FURTHERMORE, HE NEVER tries to sell them on their sinfulness. The turning point is in verse 29 where he says “SINCE WE ARE OFFSPRING OF THE DIVINE ITS SILLY TO WORHIP STONES.” He then goes on to evangelize with the gospel of the resurrection.  Th Greeks characterize his message as “far out” call him a seed picker and invite Him to come back and talk some more.

Paul reminds us that “In the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:21)

Yesterday the authorities found the bones of the little girl murdered in Florida, for the crime of which they are holding her mother.  “are we foolish enough to pray that she joins us in heaven, or do we need to hold up signs calling her a murderer.”

It is what is in your heart as you read that that defines your relationship with the living risen savior.  “When did we see thee hungry or naked, or imprisoned? We would’ve held up a sign.

I think we should spend less time judging those outside.

1 Corinthians 5, especially the end of the chapter.

To some the preaching of the cross is foolishness, but unto us who are saved it is the power of God’s salvation…

both a practical and propositional side of the Gospel are needed today…

when preaching/witnessing/teaching we must always examine our motives…
to condemn somebody means to attack them, to punish them, etc… when we present fallen mankind God’s Word we’re not out to attack them nor are we out to punish them… we’re out to reach them with the truth… The purpose is to win our fellow believer over from sin to righteousness… People may not hear us, but it is not our problem that they don’t hear. It is our problem if we don’t speak God’s Word to them. We are supposed to declare the gospel to them, and let God do what He wants (and when He wants) with His word

Jesus throughout His ministry didn’t ignore sin… He couldn’t ignore it because of His righteous nature… If we do not challenge each other and confront each other of sin then we are in danger of playing a part of people falling deeper into their life of sin.

many today are afraid of being rejected, many have a fear of confronting, a fear of seeming too spiritual… When we tell our selves that to love someone is to let their sin go and ignore their sin we ignore what real love is.

Love was manifested perfectly in Jesus and in Jesus’ love He confronted sin. If you want to truly love someone, die to your fears and love by being a true brother/sister to them in all aspects of Jesus ministry. The loving father, who does not condemn but yet, does not ignore sin. I believe we end up sinning against our brother and sisters, our friends, when we “ignore sin” or just “let it go” Loving friends often remind us of things that we don’t want to deal with…

Michael Dixon,
Paul says in Romans 10:17, “Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” The question I have for the Emergent Church is this:  how can people hear the content of the gospel without someone sharing it?  The gospel message is not fully communicated by living a noble and just lifestyle.  For, no amount of good deeds will teach the lost the propositional truth of God’s word. 

As Paul says “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?  How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard?  And how will they hear without a preacher?” - Romans 10:13-14

As wonderful as they are, acts of kindness and good deeds, by themselves, do not fully communicate Christ’s message; only a preacher, someone willing to audibly or visually pass on the information, will suffice.  Anyone can show kindness or help the needy:  Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, are all capable of doing “good works.” It is the propositional truth of the gospel that separates us from false religion and counterfeit faith.  It is the message of Jesus that contains the power to transform lives and bring healing to the world.

without repentance of sin, men cannot have fellowship with God… (Old & New Testaments purpose of sacrifical offering) according to Ephesians 2:1, we are dead in our trespasses and sins and until we forsake them through repentance, we cannot be made alive in Christ. He that covers his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy… (Prov. 28:13)...When Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost, he commanded his hearers to repent “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38). Without repentance, there is no remission of sins; we are still under His wrath. Peter further said, “Repent ...and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19). We cannot be “converted” unless we repent. God Himself “commands all men everywhere [leaving no exceptions] to repent” (Acts 17:30). Peter said a similar thing at Pentecost: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you” (Acts 2:38).

The thief on the cross confessed his sins… both thieves knew they were guilty and deserved to die for their crimes… only one thief saw that he deserved his punishment because he was a sinner… and that thief confessed with his mouth, “and we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward for our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss...” and then he said unto Jesus, Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kindgom…

we must confess our sins in order to be saved…

we cannot replace God’s Word with our human methods… we must give the world God’s Word…

Peter:

I see a difference in judging someone and warning someone about their sin.  Kind of like the watchman in Ezekiel 33.

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CS