I’m seeing things here that I agree with and that I have a somewhat different perspective on. I see Hybels saying that people in “Elm and Vine”, or long established, usually stagnant, churches as not caring about people outside their own four walls, not that these churches are full of sinful people. I think we need to see that distinction more carefully. In my personal experiences I find that equally descriptive of some of what I consider larger, 200-400 attendees, suburban churches, where the focus seems to be far more internal than external. That I think is the crux of the issue, where is the church focused, regardless of size, internally for the comfort zones of attenders and members, or externally, reaching others for Christ?

I last served a body of believers that had 30- 40 attenders and we were located across the street from a half-way house for chemically dependant recovery people. We usually had 10% of our attendees from that setting and they sometimes received too much attention for their own good. Those who were “watching each other die” were vitally interested in reaching everyone they could and sometimes overwhelmed these short-term “members” in their eagerness to make sure they heard the Good News of the Gospel. That was sometimes faulty methodology, never faulty desire. They also continued to give 20% to missions, at home, and, abroad. I give this as an example that any size body of believers can and should focus as much of their efforts and resources externally as possible. I also offer it as encouragement for those still serving on the corner of Elm and Vine to know that you can make a difference one person at a time or to thousands at a time. I know from that small church I was part of I was privileged to represent them as their called Pastor baptizing 22 people at a time after preching to hundreds for them in God’s name.

I now work with 8 churches of all different denominations and affiliations in an outreach effort for teens where we have to constantly be vigilant that we don’t focus only on being a glorified babysitting service for the church members who support us. Keeping our focus instead on reaching those who would never even think of darkening the doors of one of churches. That is the main point again, where is your focus, keeping people within the 4 walls of your building content or on equiping them to reach out into the world outside those 4 walls? Service begins as they walk out, not as they walk in.
Bruce

My, my, my...and we wonder why more people don’t go to church? Why do we have to criticize other churches, whether growing or not growing. Last I heard, being critical of brothers and sisters in Christ was not approved by God.

Hi everyone. My two cents, for what it’s worth, is this:
Although it is true that our Lord has a tendency towards using the small, insignificant things, even more so the simple, base things. If we keep it simple we will realize it is the job of the church (universal) to preach the gospel and make disciples. Young or old, rich or poor, shy or bold, it is your job. Jesus didn’t say “ok, you bold, couragous ones, you young, energetic ones, go out and preach the gospel to the lost.” Elderly people, poor people, shy people as well as young, rich and outgoing people have been called to the great comission. The comission doesn’t expire as one becomes a senior citizen and it is not void if someone is too shy. The key is compassion. Compassion for the lost will defeat all stereotypes. Compassion for the lost is what Jesus has and what He has passed on to us. It is there somewhere, within all true Christians. I have found, by much experience that being a conformed-to-this-world Christian numbs our conscience and along with it our compassion.
I am feeling very convivted as I type this because I don’t live this like I should, but be convicted along with me and do something for Jesus. I have been fooled into believing this new idea of lifestyle evangelism. Lifestyle evangelism is great. Holy living is a necessity for a Christian, but unless it is coupled with going out into the world and preaching the gospel, true evangelism, it is not really fulfilling the great comission.
I have been seeing alot of stereotyping, starting with Hybels. However, I do tend to believe that the average “Christian” doesn’t “give a flying rip” for the lost, but that doesn’t necessarily carry over to church organizations.
I am convinced of the problem here, and it is that we are discussing the church, and “does it care?”, when the people within the church building are individuals who can’t simply be lumped in together in categories of, [Cares Alot, Cares Some, Indifferent, Does Not Care]. Some churches will be more evangelistic and others not so much, but there is always that chance that there are those who are “sticking it out” and trying to stir the compassion within the body by being faithful among the unfaithful.
This is longer than I planeed but let me finish with this…
We are called to tell people about Jesus. God’s job is to grow the church. Wether we are doing our job or not we can be sure that God is. He is growing The Church, even if he is not growing our church. The churches that get really big, are hopefully being filled with true Christians who have had their dead consciences exposed to the Law of God and have gone to the Savior for forgiveness. If that is the case, then God is using rockin’ music and coffee holders to do it.
Be all things to all people that by all means some will be saved.

You Bless God,

James

Should read praying for those with whom we have differences.

amen franklin

http://www.emerginglife.org

Daniel,

I’m afraid you’ve read bits and pieces of this post.

Again… if your church DOES give a rip (which your OBVIOUSLY does!), then Hybles wasn’t talking about you! 

So why are you so, “I’d like to see him do this?”

Again… he wasn’t talking about you!

Are there other churches in your town that are dead?  That have no desire to reach the lost?  That are mere social clubs?  THOSE are who he was talking to.

He wasn’t looking down from his Ivory Tower to demean everyone whose church isn’t 15,000.

Come on.

Again… please read through the entire post and comments… IT’S NOT ABOUT YOUR CHURCH SIZE!!!

Todd

What do you say we start with a whole new model...let’s work together. 

There are movements currently working in Colorado Springs and Chicago where small and big churches alike are realizing that together we can win “regions” for Christ...individually, no matter how large of a church...we do not see “regional change.” Names like Tomberlin and Haggart are starting such discussions.

I think the days of “us vs. them” are really losing their flavor...those were slogans of the 80s.  I believe words like “imagine what we could accomplish if we could just work together” (Ken Blanchard) are starting to begin...with courageous follow-up of “how can I help fund YOUR church’s ministry”...at a close second.

One dopes opinion…
Jim