Wow!  What a powerful article!  I share those same sentiments.  We expect others to bring God to us on Sunday mornings rather than being ready and prepared to walk into the presence of God.  No, Doug is NOT the only person.  You can look at the number of people who are involved in the ministry of the church compared to those who attend.  That in itself reflects that Doug is not the only one:  20% of the people doing 80% of the work and the tithing.  Besides that, however, there are many church leaders who expect the senior pastor to preach what they want preached, expect the music pastor to utilize songs and instruments that they want, and expect youth pastors to lead the youth as they see fit rather than how God is leading the pastoral leaders to lead.  I am a music pastor and have been involved in ministry for 6 years now and have witnessed this on many occasions, including in MY heart what *I* want to see done, rather than the direction in which God is leading.  Yes, I believe individuals have failed God which has caused the church to fail.  However, God is still using the church to reach people for HIM.  Once we, as Christians, grasp onto God and worship HIM in spirit and truth rather than dwelling on our desires, maybe then the church will be what God intended it to be.
Thank you Doug for your insights.  I don’t always like church either.  I think I’d rather go back to the way it was in the early days when Christians met in each other’s homes rather than a big building.

I believe Doug represents the symptom instead of the problem with what we call “church” today, i.e., a program that strengthens the structural aspects of what is basically an organization and NOT a church.

Such a structure, which is the result of centuries of false teaching designed to keep a few in power over the many, cannot bring the life-giving power that the Body of Christ, with each member expressing his/her uniqueness of calling and gifting, can only bring.

The very notion that we require “worship leaders” and “pastors” in order to grow in the grace of Christ is misrepresentative to the nature of the Body of Christ and insulting to the Holy Spirit.  We have created what is, in essence, a “welfare mentality” in the church where people have been taught that they NEED such people to lead them in their walk in Christ.

Instead, such programs and practices, which bear no resemblance to the simple yet powerful practices of the Early Church, strangle the Body of Christ by “boxing up” believers.  When a part of our bodies is not allowed to be used atrophy and ultimate death is the result.

It is time for God’s people to reclaim what is their’s by right, the freedom to congregate together where everyone is encouraged to express the “psalm, hymn and spiritual song” that resides in every believer and that is designed to equip the Body for the work of service.

I am also a pastor and I do feel this way sometimes.  But I think it comes from the idea that we are suppossed to “get something” out of worship.  Excuse me.  But we aren’t here to worship you!  I believe we are suppossed to “get something” out of Christian Education, we are suppossed to “give something” (ourselves) to God in worship and pray that God gets something out of it.

Definitely true. Sometimes I feel the same way. I receive Doug insights as a red light. There sometimes when we need God’s mirror not our mics or instruments. Selfishness is a subtle temptation between leadership and is very helpful to have a wake up call.

Dear Saints,

IT’S NOT ABOUT US IT IS TOTALLY ABOUT HIM! I weep and I’m sure the Master (Jesus Christ) does also when He hears His people say “there’s also too much emphasis on getting people born again”. It’s a reflection of an Anti-Christ spirit and needs to be bound and rebuked in Jesus name.  Division in the Church is NOT from the Lord, it’s from Satan people. We, Christians are the Church.

Please encourage all church leaders to yeild all activities and services held in God’s “house of prayer” be totally lead by the Holy Spirit and place Jesus Christ as head of their ministry.

I beg you my fellow Christians, please do not turn this site into a religious debate, CNN or 60 minutes.  We need to be about doing our Father’s business in these last days and leading as many as we can to Jesus Christ before they are left behind to face persecution and eternal damnation.

This message was sent out of LOVE and should be interpeted that way by all.

God Bless, Bruce
Ambassador for Christ

I believe Bruce misunderstood Edwin Rivera when he said, “There’s also too much emphasis on ‘getting people born again’.” Sure that sounds bad if you only quote that much of what he said.  Let’s tack on the rest of what he said and find out what he meant.  “There’s also too much emphasis on ‘getting people born again’ AND THEN STOPPING THERE.”

Wow, there is a whole new meaning now.  I think it is a shame that many churches just want people to “be saved.” Just because someone says they are saved means nothing.  There actions are the sign that they are saved.  If church leaders don’t help mature the “saved,” few will stay “saved” long.  Good teaching is the hallmark of a good church and that is what we need more of. 

We also need more people willing to tell the truth about Christ and not stylize it like many modern mega churches do today.  God’s (and Jesus’) message is amazing once you dive in and really get into the “meat” of it.  I am a stronger Christian today than I ever was because I continually study His Word.  Everyday I learn something new and it is all thanks to one of my good friends who had the conviction to tell me what I was doing against God.  Bless him for saying something and truly leading me to know the Lord better than I ever have.

9/27/04
What a powerful article.  thank you.

My problem with church is that I am very insecure and shy person. So I get easily self-centered and withdrawn. I feel left out because we have so many clicks and being single I have very few friends to hang with. I am on my prayer team, but I feel like that is the only reason other then my love for Jesus that keeps me in the church. I don’t church hop I don’t have much confidence even at age 31 to do that, but mostly I just feel lone ranger. Most people are busy and married and our schedules conflict. I work alot, but I have no social life. I don’t think that it is easy to try to find your niche in any church. It helps if you have confidence in God and not low self worth. I have been genuinely rejected in life and in alot of churches so I beyond ministry and worship service I am not into the social aspect of the whole deal. But I agree it is my own self centered nature that causes my problems. Am I going to worship for God or to meet friends or my potential husband?Still its lonely where I am at and even trying to reach out I have failed alot more then succeeded. Does anybody out there relate. In church we christians say that race or looks or social status, education, money, etc does not matter, but it does to our flesh and most time we relate to one another on totally superficial levels and not based on God. If we did we would all reach out and allow the Spirit to lead us to the right church the right friends, etc. I think about how the disciples were pretty self preoccupied before the Lord was crucified, but after He was resurrected they were changed when they all drew together in one accord in the upper room waiting for the Holy Spirit to empower them. After that you see them being more focused on God, not perfect, but just more focused on what is really important. That is how we should be then those of us in church and out of church would be more enthusiastic about coming become there would be more acceptance. We will never be perfect, but we can “strive for perfection” through the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

QUOTE:We have created what is, in essence, a “welfare mentality” in the church where people have been taught that they NEED such people to lead them in their walk in Christ.

This is so true! I get so TIRED of hearing people say “I can’t take Nursery or teach Jr. Church or be a greeter or be an usher or anything at all because I need to be in the service and be fed.” You know, some of these people have been Christians for 30+ years and they still want to be spoon fed! Puhleeze! Feast on God’s Word daily and let it give you the sustenance and energy to get to work!!! The Bible says that if a man doesn’t work, he shouldn’t eat...It says, “Freely you have received, freely give.”

ALSO~ I, like many others, have noticed how so many people are tired of church. They are tired of the bickering and gossiping and fake tears and all-about-money attitudes. They are tired of the same-ol-same-ol and the Welcome-Stand-Pray-Sing-Sit-Announcements-Stand-Sing-Requests-Pray-Offering-Sit-Choir Special-Amen-Stand-Sing-Sit-Message-Cry-Pray-Benediction pattern week after redundant week.

The problem is (as much as I hate to admit it) that we want to be entertained, stroked, and built up. We want to sing what we want to sing, hear what we want to hear, have the preacher pat us on the back instead of stepping on our toes, be recognized for our meager giving, and take in a fresh breathe of air as we loosen our stuffy ties and walk out the chapel doors.

This article was a real eye-opener for me. I know that my church has a lot of problems, but that’s because it’s full of people. You can meet with people in any kind of building- warehouse, church, home, restaurant- and the same thing will ALWAYS eventually happen-- familiarity breeds contempt. Once we get to know each other, we find out all the flaws we could’ve lived without knowing. We disagree. Vehemently. We judge. We get cynical and critical.

You might think I’m being rude or unreasonable, but I speak so boldly because I know I’m right-- Been there, done that, still wearing (but ready to shed) the t-shirt :o(

God help us who call ourselves by his precious Son’s Name to walk worthy of our vocations…

Quote: “There’s also too much emphasis on “getting people born again” and then stopping there. We need to work on maturing Christians.”

But, alas, even the command of Jesus to “make disciples” has been hijacked to mean “clone the pastor” through “discipleship programs” that have more to do with how to become a paying member of the organization than a true-blue follower of Christ.

Maturity and discipleship comes through relationship not classes.  Classes reach the head but relationships centered around Jesus reaches hearts.

Quote: “I think that ‘worship’ technically means that we are to come to offer something to God- never to receive.”

It is my opinion that “worship” has little or nothing to do with music but rather how we live our lives, as unto HIM and Him alone.  This is what Romans 12:1-2 means as being “our spiritual service of worship.”

When we live in accordance to His Word and for His glory, we are truly dying to self.

To deny that there is need for leadership or any other spiritual gift for the sake of authenticity really denies the body of Christ, because the gifts are given for the body…

Hey, Doug, stop whining. You have been given the privilege of embracing people for Christ all week as well as on Sunday. Actually, you should probably quit until you are desparate for the chance to once again serve Christ and His people in a full-time capacity.

Do it, Doug...resign your position. And, don’t come back until you are desparate. (Psalm 42:4) Got a wife and kids? Dosen’t matter, God will take care of you as you seek Him.

Sincerely: no group hug

Quote: “Hey, Doug, stop whining. You have been given the privilege of embracing people for Christ all week as well as on Sunday. Actually, you should probably quit until you are desparate for the chance to once again serve Christ and His people in a full-time capacity.”

Why does any of us need to be in a cushy, paid position in order to “embrace people for Christ?”

One of the most serious misconceptions about so-called “full-time ministry” is the practice of validating a person’s ministry by a paycheck that has the name of a religious organization on it. 

In addition, erroneous teaching regarding what is and who are in “full-time ministry” has robbed the Body of Christ of its calling to win the world through the thriving priesthood of the believer.  A friend of mine told me once that ALL legitimate work is holy to the Lord and serves as the believer’s place of ministry, thus making him/her “full-time” ministers.

Maybe Doug should leave his position but he shouldn’t do it to “become desperate.” Instead, he should leave “ministry” in order to enter THE ministry.