Orginally published on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 at 8:51 AM
by Todd Rhoades
In case you haven't seen it, here's a link to the Ted Haggard interview from this past weekend. Steven Furtick did a really good job interviewing Haggard. I watched about the first 20 minutes and it was very interesting. Tell me what you think...
Here's the link...
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There are 9 Comments:
I listened to the whole message, and here are some notes I jotted down along the way:
-I find Furtick’s tone of mannerisms and his dress, unfortunately, to be like he’s more focused on fashion and style than being a man of God. Which is a horrible shame, because I thought that his lead in to introducing the Haggards was awesome. I’ll just stick to the audio to see if I can glean things without being distracted.
-When asked if anything has changed for the Haggards, Ted mentioned that Gayle has taken to cussing much more. Furtick said that he also says some bad words on stage, and everyone laughed. Why would a pastor take pride in cussing from the pulpit, or a Christian in their relationship? That’s wrong.
-I kept listening to Haggard’s explanation of all of the problems that his sin cause, and how it hurt those he loved. When he was wrapping up his major statement, he said that he was angry at devil, upset about his loss of leadership for things like when his son got a broken arm, and how he couldn’t even get a menial job in Arizona. He talked about how his grandkids will google his name and find the shameful things he had done. He concluded with, “I am so sad that I did that to my family and my friends”
I may be mistaken here, but I don’t think I heard him say once how he was so upset for hurting his God for what he did. He was sorry for hurting the body of Christ, but all of those transgressions and sorrowful feelings he listed were horizontal towards others, and not vertical towards God. I think this is why I have a tough time with hearing him talk about his position with God, because he doesn’t show repentance in that vertical area (at least, not publicly).
-Gayle said about others in churches who go into sin, “We shouldn’t be shocked when a brother falls.” No, we should be shocked when someone in the church sins, because that person has been saved by Jesus Christ. We are supposed to no longer be people who are living lifestyles of sin, but should strive for righteousness. Yes, we are all human and still bound by flesh, but we have been changed by God in that moment of salvation to where we should not dive headlong into sin anymore.
-I don’t know why they have boasted twice about being on Larry King, Oprah, and HBO. Is it really that important to have that worldly recognition for his sins?
Anyway, just my thoughts along the way.
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CS
Several things really jump out at me about Haggard.
#1 One of the qualifications for being an elder in the Church is to be “above reproach”. It’s understood that we are all sinners and will sin. However one of the primary responsibilities he had was to remain “above reproach” . Unfortunately Mr. Haggard that ship has sailed.
Translation : Get a job… and quit scheming as to how you can regain and maintain the comfortable lifestyle you lost. The circuit he’s on with his hand out to everybody might end up being more devestating than the scandel itself.
#2 He’s directed so much angst towards those he percieves have betrayed him, namely his church family in Colorado Springs. Well, who taught and trained those very people for years and years ?
#3 People are people, we all fall short. If the Haggards feel that they are victims of backlash let’s remember how this story broke… the evening news, cable news, state newspapers. It’s not like Haggard walked before his people and humbly confessed and asked for forgiveness (of course he did after the fact, in written form if I remember). Betrayal takes time to get over, forgiveness has to be processed and I can’t help but wonder if he expected forgiveness to come, not in simple words but in a six figure job offer, a house in the burbs and a book deal… beacause that seems to be what he’s pursuing now.
The victims here are Mr. Haggards Wife and Children. I think the family would do a whole lot better if he simply got a job in the real World and quit dragging himself along on this pity party.
Also,
Regarding point #2 Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that some of the biggest trends in the Church in the last several decades is to drop regeneration for “life change” and to drop expositing the Bible for felt needs topical “talks”? Then we wonder why Christians act “THAT way” and seem no different than the World.
Guys, I would say that while I understand your thoughts, where is grace in this for you? While Haggard sinned and in a very visible and public way, the Jesus you love and follow, is the same one that loves and forgives you and Ted Haggard.
I struggle with the way Haggard has dealt with this sin. I don’t feel that he has really owned this entirely. But I cannot know his heart. It may well be that he and God are farther down this road (of forgiveness and healing) than we are with him.
While it is easy to be upset and angered at Haggard, I can hear the words of Jesus in the back of my mind as I think of your comments and my thoughts about Ted, “how can you see to remove the speck from your brothers eye...”
You know where I am going. While we may not have sins that are similar to Haggards, but we each have sin and must come to grips with the fact that Jesus really did pay for THIS sin as well as ours..
Eric,
Where in either mine or CS’ posts did we say Haggard isn’t forgiven by Christ or that we or any other Christians shouldn’t forgive him?
I think the issue raise by Haggard’s tour de’ media is one of TRUST not forgiveness.
CS,
Good thoughts.
jud,
(I can’t believe I’m saying this) I totally agree with your first point. No, I don’t agree with the characterization in your follow-up, but in terms of your concerns #1, 2, and 3… I totally agree, I think, with every sentence.
In the church today, it’s up to us who are leaders to make ourselves accountable. Ted didn’t. Would this have happened if he had had some people in his face with grace? Perhaps, but it might have been more difficult.
CS, Your opening statement IMO is a style issue and he did not come across to me that way at all.
I would not want to miss the power of the words of Haggards wife. Build your life on Jesus and his words and no matter the storm you will stand.
Reading these comments here it almost feels like we missed the point of the power of sin, the power of secrets and how much more powerful is the power of forgiveness, the power of the cross, the power of the body because of the power of God.
In the past people have criticized Furtick for not preaching the gospel and repentance. I think he answered that too. I am humbled by this presentation as I know how quickly and easily sin entangles me and rejoice in God’s Grace and Truth.
CS,
I understand where you are coming from on your point about Pastor Furtick. What’s amazing is that there was nothing about Jesus’ APPEARANCE that would draw people to him, but when you visit churches and their web-sites and see young pastors who we are esteeming it often seems that appearance is the paramount goal! The April 27 edition of Newsweek has an articlle entitled “Generation Me” (p48 by Raina Kelley) which speaks to the same thing you are getting at I believe.
It is the epidemic of narcissism.
It’s a big reason why Ted Haggard simply has to remain in the publics gaze and it’s the reason SO many upstart churches are, it seems, as obssessed with branding their image and marketing that image than fulfilling the Great Commission.
And it all seems to start with the recognition and personality of the senior pastor. As I’ve called it before… Cult of Personality.
I don’t think this narcissism it’s limited to mine and Furtick’s generation (X) but it is pervasive throughout our culture. Even churches who elevate “missional” to the top of their platform meticulously document (through video, photos and print) anything they have done… and even Market it.
CS, it goes BEYOND a hunch on your part when you see that message series at Elevation Church include an extended series on leadership (Purple People Leader). Humans don’t need to be taught how to lead, we need to be taught how to follow!!! Leadership is THE topic of this generation of church planters. The huge problem I have with that is that it puts the focus on people, the self proclaimed leaders. Excuse me but we already have our leader, The Holy Spirit, we need TEACHERS. The problem is… teaching is a role of humility (thats coming from a public school teacher here) Teachers simply point to Truth.
Leaders require the “gaze of the masses
jud writes [Humans don’t need to be taught how to lead, we need to be taught how to follow!!! ] I respectfully disagree. We desperately need quality leadership training for Christians, especially Christian leaders, to hopefully increase the number of those people who are great followers of Christ (the first part of leading), and that might lead to fewer situations like Haggard’s.
Romans 12 tells us that leadership is a spiritual gift and needs to be practiced with diligence.
I think occasionally that you simply paint with too broad strokes.
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