“Why? I think one of the main reasons is that it is many times hard to decipher the DNA of a local congregation totally during the interview process.”

This is a very good point.  Do you think this is even more of a problem with non-denominational churches; i.e. independent churches?

I think you hit it right on the nose-portray themselves as they would like or hope to be.” I think what’s really key to getting “the right match” is for everyone-interviewer and interviewee-to be completely honest and up front; ae. why did the last person quit?..etc. I believe sometimes what happens is both sides actually get so frustrated with the interview process itself that sometimes a choice is made just for the sake of getting it all over with. When we look for what we think is best for us, and don’t rely on God’s timing and plan, that’s when things get messed up.

Here’s a thought-anyone ever thought of after being interviewed by the “interview team” asking for a church directory and just calling “Joe Average” and see what they think about the church and the leaders in general? I wonder what kind of response you’d get from people not on the “A” list of people to talk to.

This is what I did the last time I was interviewed. I asked several people individually to give me the reason that particular church existed. If everyone is clear on the vision and purpose of the church itself, everything else seems to fall into place.

BTW-the next time I’ll make sure when I’m being interviewed I’m not attending a luncheon for the last person being let go (actually she was cleaning out her office while the staff had lunch a few feet away-very uncomforatable). Not a great way to start…

Rob,

I say you have a good point as well as a sad story.  I agree with your thoughts about attending the fellowship for a period of time, before making a decision about Pastoring there, however, in most cases this is very hard to do. 

What do you and Todd think about getting a list of people to interview who attend and who do not attend the church any longer? 

When it comes to Denominations, the only advantage I can see, from a pastor’s perspective, is that one can “ask around” about the church to see what their reputation is.

I moved to a church in the Midwest from the Southwest about 5 1/2 years ago to serve as a Senior Pastor.  In some ways it has been a mismatch.  However, if one has the mindset of a missionary, and God has called you to that place you must believe in your calling and learn the new culture.  Was not Paul a “mismatch” to the Gentiles.  We can become all things to all people so that we might reach some.

Interesting reading…
I was discipled by my pastor, licensed to the ministry and allowed to minister in my home church. The pastor left and it was apparent that a loud minority wanted me gone too.  After much pain and persecution, I left.  I went from a traditional/denominational church to a nondenominational/charismatic church. Since I am gifted, I fit the DNA.  However, my giftedness was a threat to the pastor and his failure to keep our “employment” arrangement ended that term.  I returned to a traditional/denominational church and everything was going great - until the pastor left.  Unfair expectations were being placed on me as I was bi-ministry and unable to cover pastoral duties in both places.  Also, the Spirit-led movement for change, which I was called to facilitate, was stopped the minute the pastor resigned. So, I left.  It’s been over a year now and I still search for a church to call “home”.  I tried returning to my home church but quickly realized I wasn’t wanted back as some consider me to be a “flaming charismatic” now. I’ve sent so many resumes I’ve lost count - to churches and secular jobs.  It’s been a long night of weeping - looking forward to joy in the morning.  And looking for my place in this world!

Wanted to clarify for the earlier comment it was not a good fit for my wife and I. Sorry deleted the last part when I was editing it Sorry for any confusion

It’s hard to imagine how the fit can be so bad, and not apparent through an interview process.  I seriously think it’s more an issue of “getting along,” and lack of good leadership skills… maybe even as basic as a problem in acquiring the love of Jesus…

...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

Great opinions. Here is my opinion; In college they taught us how to resolve a chord but not how to resolve conflict with the Pastor. I took my own counsel. I went to the Pastor with my “concerns”. I have been here 5 years, the dropping point for most staff members. Our Choir has tripled. The special music is blessed. Or orchestra still small but dynamic. Our congregational music is up beat and connected BUT the Pastor doesn’t like me,period. The assoc Pastor told me, “you don’t get it do you, he doesn’t like you and neither does his family so you are finished”. His opinion was insightful but I asked where is the spiritual reference here? Answer-laughter. That is the problem. Contracts won’t happen, in most cases, until ALL of the applicants ask for one. A Pastor or a “CEO”. I went to the Pastor with the missing elements of the empty promises and after two hours of “discussions” I tendered my resignation. He got a troubled look and I think he thought he would have trouble himself with the church if I wasn’t here Sunday morning. So he quickly about-faced and offered to fix the holes. 3 months later no repairs so, I either leave or stay and be disrespected. Three other staff members have left. They were replaced in weeks. The new employees received a “Honeymoon” then it set in on them that a mistake had been made. As long as the Public Relations effort of the Pastor works with the congregation Night follows Day. I asked the Lord and He will not permit me to leave. His will never takes us to a place where His grace cannot keep us. Holding On!

Pastor Al,

I don’t think getting a list of people (both present attenders and past attenders) to talk to would necessarily be a bad idea.  It would be interesting if they would give you a list like that.  I think if they would, that would be a nice step… kinda saying they have nothing to hide.  (It’s the skeletons in the closet that will get you!)

Todd

Real quick Bio – Secular manager for 15 years, received Christ at 40, surrendered to ministry at 42, youth minister at 44, bi-vocational/secular work to support family, and in search of a pastoral position. You guys scare me! Are there really that many difficulties in the pastoral ministry?
I have had my share of problems with managers and employees in my years as a manager, but problems could always be worked out ( the common goal was profit, customer satisfaction and a sense of professionalism) – of course there are federal laws that are set in place to protect workers.
I sense that it would be better to work with pagans who didn’t like me (and make a better salary to support my family) than to work with a bunch of Christian leaders who wanted me to be all things to all people all of the time and watch my wife and children suffer.
The church can fire at the snap of a finger and the pastor has no recourse (especially in a congregational setting)
I know this is a sinful world, and pastors, as sinners, can not blame the church for all of the issues affecting our ministry, but what ever happened to honesty, integrity, and trust in the body of Christ? It works both ways.
Bottom line – when the interview process begins you better make sure that a detailed job description, salary package, contract, and lawyer are present (may as well do it like the pagans). And also make it plainly clear to the interviewers that you can not meet the elder qualifications in 1 Timothy with perfection (I try real hard but I lost my temper last week. Will you still hire me?).
Forget God – who needs Him anyway? Did we ever stop to think that we may be in that miserable place for a reason? Did the Old Testament prophets have a gravy train job? Did the people love Paul at all times?
We have to use common sense when searching for a church but we must first put our faith in a Father who is at work in history and whose plan will not be messed up by you or me. The question is…are we willing to make the sacrifice? All of this from a guy who has finally realized he does not have all of the answers.
I pray that all of my brothers and sisters reading this have a blessed day.

I think one of the big issues that there is is accountability.  Who is keeping the church accountable to what they said they were going to do?  Whether it be the interviewing team, elders, pastor, etc… This seems to be a reoccuring theme in some of the previous comments.  Especially when people are being giving 24 hours to get out of their office and not come back.  This is just really sad to me that these things can happen and the church boards just back them up.  One situation I have seen has been hard because several staff people had been wronged and told the staff-parish board but it did no good they just continued to back the pastor.  I think what was hard in that position was that the board members were picked almost exclusively by the pastor so they just became “yes” people to whatever he wanted.  If someone disagreed they would be looked down upon or chastised.  They would usually end up leaving the committee and they would just be replaced by other people who would be “yes” people.  I think it is just at times hard especially if you are trying to do the ministry God has called you to do but maybe that makes the Jones family mad because you are not catering to them or the way things have always been done so they complain until you get into trouble.  In this case I think it is so crucial to have a pastor and a board to get your back even when it is not comfortable or easy.  I think this is a very hard thing to tell in an interview process.  How can you know this before you take the job?  Its not like during the interview process they are going to say, “Oh by the way these are some people that I left out to dry so they quit you can call them up and ask them what they think of me and this church.” and how would you go about asking for information like that because you can’t say, “Can you give me some names of people that you haven’t gotten along with in ministry.” Most of the people who will interview you will be the people who haven’t been wronged or left out to dry.  These things are very difficult to know what to do so you may be tactful but also find out the information that you need.