There is always a certain “drop-off” when our main speaker (who is UNUSUALLY gifted) is not speaking, and that drop-off is diminishing all the time (especially since several of our pastors are decent speakers in their own right, too).

Here’s why I doubt we’d send out an email like this. A lot of our folks who stay home because they know our SP is not preaching are either still exploring Christ or are not very formed in their faith. I don’t expect instant discipleship out of them. And the ones who are closer to Jesus are the ones who know that I or one of the other pastors might each have something worthwhile to speak into their lives.

I’m not saying Brian was wrong in what he sent, because I don’t know his congregation, but I know ours, and for my part… I don’t think we’d send this.

Maybe everyone who wasn’t there just had something more important to do.  Discipleship is NOT measured by perfect attendance to Sunday mornings.  I don’t know Brian but it sounds to me like he was embarrassed in front of Gene because of the low turn out.  The most spiritual way to spend your Sunday morning, and I repeat this to our church often, may be reconciling with a neighbour, staying in bed with your spouse, taking your kid fishing or cooking breakfast for some hungry folks.  If I was in Brian’s church, that Brian’s, I’d tell him to get over himself and let people decide when and if they’ll be there.  Spanking grown ups is NOT healthy.

I have exactly the same situation as Brian.  When we have a guest speaker, 1/2 our congregation doesn’t show up.  At first, I too was disappointed but after praying about it, I accepted the fact that spiritual growth takes time.  If at first, they come to hear me speak and are loyal to me, then my responsibility is to be faithful in teaching them to love God’s Word and those that teach it.  Eventually, their loyalty for me (their pastor) will mature and they will not be tied to my apron strings.  For me, this is very humbling and motivating.

KC, the post on this blog (on my computer) is below the article.  At the top of the page is the article on personality, then below that is the posts.  Finally at the bottom of the page is the comments area (which I know you found because you posted a question).  So if I am right, if you go to “Post Your Comments” and scroll UP, you should find what you are looking for.  God bless you brother

Tim Keller, respected pastor who also spoke at the Orlando conference is certainly a larger than life preacher and teacher. His church, Redeemer Pres in NYC clearly has a “personality” situation and though aware of it doesn’t go spanking the adults...in fact, they give subscribers to Dr. Keller’s sermon tapes the option to suspend their subscription when he is away for extended vacation in the summer..... things that make you go hmmmmm....
I have a similar situation to Brian in my church so I can relate. What I have found is that the older, more mature saints show up regardless of who is speaking and, may I add, regardless of the weather, as well. The question at heart is...Are they growing in Christ-likeness?...that’s my concern. Sheep like their shepherd...big deal.

Usually in our church, of which I’m the SP, we have a much GREATER attendance for a guest speaker. I wonder what that tells us?

Huh?  Seems like Brian did precisely what he asked his congregation no do.  Is this not a classic example of “don’t do what I do, do what I preach”?

While preaching that his flock shouldn’t make a decision of Sunday attendance based on the personality at the helm, he reprimands them for not showing up when the great spiritual orator, Gene Apple is in the pulpit. 

Sorry, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that kind of in-your face-disrespect.

How silly.  All churches are built by personality ... whether quiet or loud, reserved or dynamic, etc etc.  Most, if not all, organizations take on the personality of their leaders.  That’s a fact. 

That has nothing to do with what the “personality” is promoting!  If the “personality” is not promoting Jesus Christ and de-promoting himself at EVERY TURN then the “personality” is not leading well.  Don’t you think Paul led by “personality?” His “personality” was such that WHENEVER he felt that the congregation was more focused on the human leadership over the true “head” and “personality” of our churches, Jesus Christ, then Paul’s “personality” was such that he pointed out the error of their ways ... with much “personality!”

What this pastor did may not have been what everyone else would have done but that’s irrelevant.  He is the God-ordained man for that local community and needs to be trusted to have his finger of their pulse.  I commend him for 1) recognizing the problem and 2) attempting to address it.

Any postulation or insinuation that he somehow was “embarrased” or had some other less than honorable motivation is not Christlike since we have NO IDEA what this pastor’s heart was other than what he says it was.

God’s peace.

I kind of felt he was enforcing the personality cult by being upset that the church didn’t turn out for the big man.

At the end of the day, you’ll probably never know if the church is built more on your personality or Christ...until you wean the baby!  Leave the church to someone else and move on.  Then you’ll find out if you built on you or on Christ.

I don’t think that Brian was reprimanding his flock for not showing up to listen to the “big dog.” Rather his response was to the suggestion that they didn’t show up because he wasn’t in the pulpit.

In an era of ego stroking pastors I think that his reproach is indeed refreshing even if some of you would be to proud to receive that type of rebuke from your pastors.

I also don’t think the concern for the seekers and spiritually immature is sufficient to back off from strong statements like this.  People are not stupid and they know that God desires for them to be involved in a community of believers.  If people in his church are offended by this challenge to grow up and commit to the community of believers then I am sure that they will have no problem leaving and finding a church that will allow them to stay spiritually immature and comfortable in their own situation.

A bigger issue might be the questions of what type of communities are we building in our churches.  Those of you who have hit on the problem of personality centered worship instead of Christ centered worship are definitely on to something.  Yes, the seekers and immature believers will latch on to the personalities of men, but we must push them towards Christ and not men.

Hey guys, it’s SUMMER! Am I the only pastor whose numbers dip EVERY summer REGARDLESS who’s speaking??? It doesn’t bother me that our numbers dip a little in the summer because I know our people are on vacation and I want them taking family vacations! If I have a speaker I want to bring in and I want to make sure all our people are there to hear him, I’m not going to do it in JUNE! (Just thought I’d add a little “seasoned” perspective.) As to the issue of “personality-driven” churches, the same apostle who said it’s not about Paul or Apollos told people to follow him as he followed Christ. I think our church families feeling connected to their pastor is a healthy thing as long as that connection ultimately points them to Christ.

You all analyze this way too much. Don’t you realize that people are creatures of habit? Folks don’t like change. I think there are a lot of churches that don’t foster change.  These congregations become routine. Sheep don’t like their routine broken.

Many larger churches have developed teaching teams that showcase different personalities and teaching gifts.

Heres a way to change all that. Find a trusted associate in the church and start to develop a tag team approach. Recently I was at Saddleback Church in Lake Forrest California.  Rick Warren often uses the tag team method. Rick uses his father-in-law Tom Holliday to present one of the points of the sermon. Together the congregation sees a competent team and it opens the door for Rick to be gone on a Sunday and the congregation not to feel abandoned.

This also helps to develop other teaching gifts in the church and starts to limit the ‘following of one personality’. This concept will help some of you guys break the routine. Congregations that are constantly fostering change allows their people to accept change better.  Attendance should hold when the congregations realize that God can bless them through a multitude of teachers. After all, isn’t part of the calling of a pastor… to “perfect the saints for the work of the ministry” to help others discover their gifts and calling.