Awesome - Good for him!

Kent,
We know that in different seasons of the early church they had favor with all men.  We know that at least 1/3 of Jesus ministry led him to great popularity.  I think that when the bibles says the world will hate you, that is not an all inclusive us against them statement.  I also believe that this is not friendship with the world either.  This is a Pastor who has found his voice, positive, encouraging glass ¾ filled voice and when you compare him to some other American preachers that have found their voice, it is starkly different.  Billy Graham is well thought of, most people like Rick Warren, except for a bunch of Christians. 

As to your last question, why aren’t we more offensive?  I am not sure we have to be offensive to be at odds.  I spent several years working with gangs.  I was at odds with everything the Gang stood for but was not offensive, I was loving instead.  I am at odds but do not use weapons that necessarily make me offensive. 

What I believe Joel stands against is the constant negative, life is over, you are trapped and can do nothing about your life culture.  His voices is that through Jesus Christ, life can be different than that.  So while he is at odds with a culture his weapons are not necessarily hostile. 

There are those who think that if I am not offensive to everyone then I have sold out.  I just don’t buy it.  I think that is such a human view of God’s kingdom.  I mentioned before I have a great interest in India. I have several friends who are indigenous pastors in Kashmir, Punjab and Himachel.  They win people to Christ, not by preaching a message that is counter cultural to Hinduism, Islam and Sikhism, but by loving and serving in a way that is counter cultural.  When the door opens they plant the seeds of the Gospel. We just build them a mobile medical clinic to travel about war torn Kashmir, offering help, vaccinations, pre-natal care, antibiotics.  This is counter cultural because they do it free and give so much more than help.  When we first got involved there were 40 churches and 80 pastors, now there are over 300 churches and 450 pastors.  I say that to say, PRAISE GOD IT WORKS! (I was yelling that part)

I agree with Brian when he says… “We can share the offense of the gospel without being offensive ourselves.  1 Peter 3 says that we are to share the gospel with gentleness and respect, so that those who slander our good behavior in Christ will be ashamed. “ But since the BIble does say that Christ is a stumbling stone and that the Gospel is an offense is Osteen adressing that part at all?  If B.W. watching his show every week (which is great) is she hearing the unadulterated Gospel, even that hard bits?  Is she hearing that she’s a sinner in need of a Savior or just that she can live her best life now?  I’m sure she’s living a great life so how does the program speak to her?  My belief is that Osteen has an off-balanced message and I fear there a thousands of people sitting in those chairs every week not knowing that they’re in desperate need of salvation.

I don’t really like Joel, but I do find him and his ministry fascinating.  I don’t think Barbara Walters is listing the most influential, or the most theologically correct, just a list of interesting people, and I’m glad that her list includes someone within the Christian community.

Ann,

Amen sister!

Jesus said:

Luke 6:26
Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

Apostle Paul said:

2 Cor. 11
4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. 5But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.” 6I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.

What is this “other gospel?” It’s called “the prosperity gospel.” It’s a blight and cancer, and so sad that so many other preachers don’t recognize it as such.

Would Joel be as famous if he taught that everyone was headed for hell, and that Christ came to save them, and that in order to be restored to God you have to come to Christ?

I’ve always looked at it a little differently than most I know, if the thousands of people listening to JO every week weren’t listening to him, would they be connected to the church at all?  If he’s not preaching/teaching the truth (and I say IF because I haven’t studied what he’s teaching) at least the people he brings in are closer to the truth than if they weren’t in church at all.  And if they’re involved in studying scripture a Lakewood Church, hopefully they will discern the truth and if it’s not being taught there they will find someplace where truth is being taught.

Someone I know wrote;

A friend of mine, who is deeply involved in the current controversy about the place of gay Christians in the Church sometimes says, that despite the depth of his involvement, he doesn’t see the issue as central to his salvation. To paraphrase him:

When I arrive at the gates of heaven, I don’t expect St. Peter to say, You are XXX and you were on the right side of the homosexuality controversy in the Episcopal Church circa 2003. Well done good a faithful servant, you may enter the Kingdom of God.

So I guess my question is, given that we all make mistakes in judgment, given that some people are blessed with greater intellect than others, given that many people are born without the mental capacity to accept or reject factual claims of any sort, and given that many human beings die before they can reasonably be expected to make a serious declaration of faith:

How important is getting it right?

This prayer by Thomas Merton, informs my own thinking.

MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going.
I do not see the road ahead of me.
I cannot know for certain where it will end.
Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so.
But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you.
And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing.
I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire.
And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it.
Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death.
I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

So, I don’t know if Joel Osteen “has it right”, and I’m sure this will make many of you nuts, but I’m not sure which is more important; getting it right or teaching the truth as you understand it.  I believe we’ve been teaching correctly in my church, but honestly we haven’t been reaching very many people.  On the other hand, JO gets a lot of criticism for his teaching but he reaches a ton of people.

DanielR said:
“If he’s not preaching/teaching the truth (and I say IF because I haven’t studied what he’s teaching) at least the people he brings in are closer to the truth than if they weren’t in church at all. “

Consider the judgment of the churches in Revelation: the Laodicean Church.  They were materially wealthy, but Jesus said they were in spiritual poverty.  Jesus said He wished they were hot or cold, but because they are lukewarn, He will spit them out of His mouth.  I think it fits hand-in-glove with this situation with Joel Osteen (and TD Jakes, and John Hagee, and all prosperity preachers).

The Message version has a funny twist for those who know it in other versions:

Rev. 3 (The Message)
14write to Laodicea, to the Angel of the church. God’s Yes, the Faithful and Accurate Witness, the First of God’s creation, says:
15-17"I know you inside and out, and find little to my liking. You’re not cold, you’re not hot—far better to be either cold or hot! You’re stale. You’re stagnant. You make me want to vomit. You brag, ‘I’m rich, I’ve got it made, I need nothing from anyone,’ oblivious that in fact you’re a pitiful, blind beggar, threadbare and homeless.
18"Here’s what I want you to do: Buy your gold from me, gold that’s been through the refiner’s fire. Then you’ll be rich. Buy your clothes from me, clothes designed in Heaven. You’ve gone around half-naked long enough. And buy medicine for your eyes from me so you can see, really see.

Luke 9:49-50 (NRSV)
9:49 John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.” 50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him; for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Bernie,

I don’t see J.O. standing up in his pulpit on Sunday Morning raking you over the coals for where you fall short so, you might want to take Jesus’ comments to heart.  IMHO