Yes, we certainly should Peter (try to listen sooner).  But I’m wondering how.  When someone is leading a boys group, going on mission trips, pretending to believe . . . how would we know?  In the pretending and participating, I’m sure this young man responded to attempts from his leaders for authenticity.  He was like a spouse who is living a lie and keeping his/her partner completely in the dark.  How would the church have known?  What should we do to surface these kind of doubts in people?

Wendi

I was told tonight that 3 people might leave my church because I don’t wear a tie. What they really want is for me to wear a robe, a tie is their version of compromise.

I agree we should listen to people. But we can’t always do what they want. It sounds silly to make an issue over a tie and yet when you start to think about the bigger issues it represents like tradition vs cultural identification, the specific issue becomes symbolic of much bigger issues. The problem is most people don’t feel ‘heard’ until you agree with them and do what they want. Me included .

Stewart,

Sounds like an article from last week on “choosing who you lose” is in order.

Your last sentence is spot on. I am always struggling with how to “hear” people even when I don’t do what they ask.

People leave.  Is it possible for someone to see the majesty of God and miss it?  Is it possible for someone to see God’s hand at work and for pride, sin and other factors to get in the way of their responding appropriately to God?  I know it is because I struggle with this all the time.  After what I have seen God do I should never doubt him again but I do, come to think of it, Jesus had some close friends who struggled with this too.  Well said Jan.  Years back I read a book by Hendricks called Exit Interviews, I found it to be healthy. 

I add this too.  We continually underestimate the power of pride (preoccupation with self) to cripple us, cut us off from others and destroy our faith.  God’s grace is found by the humble God’s opposition by the prideful.  I am aware of this in my own life.  Many people serve completely preoccupied with themselves and end up in ruin, writing letters about themselves, blaming a church, a person or system for how it did not help them… God does not humble us, we must choose humility.  Now God might humiliate us but we still have to choose humility.  I have experienced the humiliation of my actions, God ordained humiliation I might add, only to choose more pride.  I only find grace to grow, heal and be real when I choose humility.  Okay that ends the ranting portion of my post. 

I just wrote a book on humility.  10 Easy steps and how I did it in 7. Wink, Wink, Smile Smile.

Wendi: We do have a class that meets at our church where individuals can go who are wrestling with their beliefs, want in-depth discussion and will not take pat answers as answers period. Some of the people who attend are former pastors, furloughed missionaries and such. One of the things we’re starting to do is to get different groups together on Friday nights to just hang out, play games, and of course eat. It is non-threatening ways to be together and let conversations ensue as they normally might happen at such gatherings. This Friday night we’re playing the game Apples to Apples for example. Great way to learn about people and how they think. Those individuals coming are from very conservative view points to very liberal as well. The backgrounds represented span the denominational trails in all sorts of directions as well as “long-time church person” and newbies. It is not an activity. It is not held at the church. It is not on Sunday. It is opportunity for people to really get to know each other. If they know you care… they will share.. and will be more open to listening when you give answers. One thing I always try to remember though that as for as much as I think I may know God - I’m no where close. Does that necessarily then make my answers more right than anothers? Nah.

A basic analogy:  Any restaurant (or camp) dishwasher will tell you that the only customer comments you ever hear are when the dishes or silverware are dirty; you’ll never hear, “Wow, my silverware was clean!”

In the same way, few people are going to write a letter if they are/were satisfied with their church.  Why do people leave churches?  I’d say the answers can be summed up with two basic reasons:  1) they are dissatisfied with something (could be theology, practice, a person, etc., or even a dissatisfaction with themselves or God); or 2) they are moving out of the area.  Which of those groups are most likely to write a letter?  The former.

We can certainly learn from them, and sometimes we may need to make some adjustments, but not always.  Sometimes - as in Stewart’s case (with people who want him to wear a tie or even a robe) - all we can do is communicate why we do what we do...and hopefully with some legitimate justification from our theology, not just from our tradition.  Rarely, though, will we be able to change the leaver’s mind.

Sometimes the pain from leaving a church can be so great and the ensuing confusion that results the only way to heal can be through letters or blogs written as a cry for help and understanding and a feeling of will anyone tell me I’m not alone in this?  I think letters from leavers can be a great tool for the body of Christ to reach out to wounded people and meet them where they are at. I wonder if the particular case of the boy who said he was being shunned and that he couldn’t even own certain books was ever introduced to the Jesus we know?  May God have mercy on us.

Training elders and others to listen, problem solve and manage conflict is key to deep community. The pastors who think it is all about them are misisng the mark.

I just wrote about this issue on my blog in response to the Reveal book.