It’s no secret that I disagree with Ed Stetzer and the research that came out of LifeWay. 

In particular: “convention has started a downhill slide” - It has been on a downhill slide for many years now. The SBC needs to get real. Now..... not tomorrow… today.. this moment.

At the end of one’s moments on this physical earth… they do not say, “I wish I had been a part of the SBC.” The SBC needs to understand that if she wants to be around in 2030 - she needs to be resurrected. She needs to stop being about all this other junk and get back to the basics…

I do not write these things in anger. I write them in hope. Because for me - my Hope is Jesus… God. The Only One with any real Power. And it is in Him that I stand. For in the end - God wins… whether it is in using the SBC or not as one of His change agents.

I agree with Peter, it is not just the SBC.  It is nearly every denomination.  There are more churches closing that starting right now in this country and new church plants are not keeping up with population growth.

I think a big problem is traditionalism. Too many churches are stuck doing things the way they have always been done. They see the church as having always been countercultural, yet that is not true. The church was the culture. When we stopped being relevant to culture was when we decided not to allow modernity into the church. so we stayed away from the cutting edge. Musically, Rock music and drums were of the devil. encountering God in a way that was different than the liturgy that so many of the older faithful has been put off, so younger generations don’t relate to the church.

I think it’s safe to say that this is what happens when we make decisions as pastors to keep “faithful tithers” happy. we keep the doors open at too high a cost.

IMHO, if churches focused more on reaching the community they are in and BEING the gospel instead of hoping non-believers come into their church and have the gospel transmitted to them, there would be more people and money than they would know what to do with.

-End Rant

I think what is going on with the SBC, of which I be one, and other churches is that we have tried to “package and sell” the Church, with lightshows and kids amusement park themes to attract the consumer; instead of being the church and doing kingdom work outside the walls. If the majority of our budgets were spent on ministering to the hurting in our communities by providing what they are looking for the government to do, job training, daycare; instead of multistaff CEO salaries, expensive lightshow theatrics, and well packaged literature; we would actually touch some for the kingdom withsolid scripture and changed lives. We need to be real, not entertained.

Dr. Bob writes:
“ministering to the hurting in our communities by providing what they are looking for the government to do, job training, daycare;”

Good point, but is it accurate to say such priorities characterized the early church?  (Well, not specifically day care or job training) Did the early church have a “social” agenda, so to speak.  The NT doesn’t clearly describe one.  They took care of each other, with deacons making sure the widows were not neglected and such, but I don’t think I see an organized social outreach. 

Jesus talked a lot about taking care of the poor, selling stuff and giving the money, but do we see examples of that in Acts or the epistles.

Regarding CEO salaries and multiple staff and such, especially as it relates to ministering in the church or beyond the church walls, we can’t forget that we have flocks that need care.  We need folks to be at the hospital with the family of a guy having a bypass operation, or a family whose young daughter just died, or the parents of a drug-addicted son.  Volunteers may be able to do some of that but such volunteers may have a job.  So we pay people to free them up for ministry.  Those CEO salaries represent the oversight of a ministry that supports hundreds or thousands of people struggling with very real challenges.  The hurting people Dr. Bob mentions exist IN our churches as well as outside the walls, and our first priority is to take care of the sheep God has already given us, without neglecting our outreach.

I think one of the problems the SBC has, along with many other denominations, has at least something to do with what Dr. Bob and Dave Z mention, CEO salaries. The problem is not with the size of the salary though, the problem is that so many churches are being run like businesses. Many pastors are more like CEOs with a weekly pulpit than actual shephard/teachers.

Quick story, I grew up in the SBC and loved my church (despite a few rebellious years which we won’t go into!). As I started my freshman year in college I believed that God had possibly called me into ministry. I went to my pastor and asked what he thought I should study if I were to prepare for pastoral ministry. Without a moments hesitation he replied, “business”. Honestly, I was so turned off to church ministry by that response, I pretty well gave up the idea of pursuing pastoral ministry.

Now, my response may have been immature, but it is a huge problem that church is seen more from a business/marketing perspective than from a true pastoral perspective. People know when they’re being sold to rather than ministered to.

Dave Z

I have heard this argument about “the flock” first for so long it almost sickens me. At so many churches we have a bunch of fat sheep who spend so much time in discipleship classes filling the coffers of the publishing machine to become so much more like the pharisees than the Savior. My example is to be Christ like and as I observe his life he spent most of his time touching the hurting, healing the sick, hanging out with the sinners in their homes rather than having yet another covered dish dinner with the “if you want it come and get it” mentality of unity and fellowship that most of the dying churches have.
At my last church we had a Block Party for the 4th of July had over 400 people there 100 of our own and 300 from our neighborhood, yet some our people complained it was a loss because so many of “our sheep” weren’t there because they no longer know how to be Salt and light in the world. They go home and are afraid to walk among the lost, and for most Pastors we have forgotten how to do that too.
“"Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Camey,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I should have made it clear that I am no longer bitter - I was for years, but am no longer. I have been blessed by the opportunity to work as a lay leader in my church and love the ministry that I have there and in the broader world.

Dr. Bob,
Wow. I hate to say this, but you sound pretty bitter. If you are a pastor who feels this way about his congregants, you should probably consider a new line of work. Yes, Jesus spent most of his time out the “bad folks” and yes, we need to follow that example and not form our own little ghettos. Jesus also went to the temple to teach, did not disparage the need for teaching at the temple (just the corruption of the teachers) and in general showed great respect for the structures that were put in place by - oh yeah, by Him.

Also, please see Paul and Timothy - both of whom spent a little time with the flock. One of the jobs a pastor has is to get the fat sheep to exercise a little so they are healthy, and sometimes that requires more than many shepherds are willing to give. Again, see Paul’s letters to Corinth and Colosse.

Maybe the problem with the fat sheep isn’t the fault of the sheep, but the shepherd.

I do apologize for my “bitter” rants. I do love serving the church where people are willing to truly serve one another wash each others feet, touch the hurting and encourage one another, Jesus said when you do these things to the least of these you’ve done it to Me. Its just that what I was commenting on is that the majority of our ministry teams budgets and energies are spent doing the same old things we’ve always done. SS, visitation, church and fellowships. We need to train the flock how to live among the wolves and and win them not fear them.

Bob,

Thanks for clarifying - I do understand where you’re coming from, and I completely agree that we need to be out among the wolves and not just stuck in our own little Christian ghettos.

Bruce (and everyone else),

As with what Bob said above, I agree completely that there is a huge problem in much of evangelicalism, and it’s been there for a long time.  My question now is, what should it look like? What should the church be doing differently? I live just a couple of blocks from The Journey here in St. Louis - they are the church that the SBC has gotten so upset with because they host discussions at a local pub. Seems to me that they are doing some good stuff in that they are taking Christianity outside the doors of the church to a place that is much more comfortable for a lot of people.

Thoughts?

“Frankly a lot of Churches need to close their doors. They are irrelevant to the communities they are in. They lost sight of any sense or purpose. Their plan is no plan.”

What you are saying seems to be that many pastors need to find other jobs or retire right now.  How does that happen?  Most of us have a midlife crisis or slow down, and the Spirit does not always give us the gift of energy.  So how to approach this without destroying lives?