You might say that to be faithful to the Bible you must be culturally relevant!

Here is my 2 cents on the thoughts.
Relevancy is a pretty dangerous word when we use it for a couple reasons.  Jesus is always relevant.  In every culture and in every language Jesus matters simply because of whom he is and the sadness of the human condition.  He is relevant because of what only he can do with the human condition.  Another danger of using the word relevant is that imho it just doesn’t fit.  The issue is language not relevancy.  The task of the church is to learn the language our culture speaks and translate.  It is not rocket science and Jesus did model it by becoming a human. 

Preaching against culture imho is stupid.  Preaching against sin is not and to lump sin and culture together is going to bring a bad result.  God redeems culture by redeeming people and when we preach against culture we are striving for conquest not conversion.  Preaching against the culture fuels two negative pathways. 

The pathway of fear:  The people who fear culture is seeking to ruin our families, take our kids, take our homes, destroy every thing middle class in America or the world.  We never seek to redeem that which we fear.  Jesus did not come because he feared us but because he loved us. 

The pathway of pride:  I am right and you are wrong.  My way or the highway.  You just don’t get it because you are a dirty pagan, this is the kind of thinking I see from those who preach against culture.  This in its conclusion is what elevates a people group to believe that they can own another person, that it is okay to hate some people.  This in its extreme is what radical Islam is all about.  It turns us into missionaries who need to fix other people instead of bring the love of Christ to other people.  It makes us saviors instead of Jesus the Redeemer.  Pride build’s bridged of power and control, not bridges of grace and truth.

“In their view, a mark of holiness is not just being disconnected from sin but also being disconnected from sinners and the culture they share with us every day.”

THERE is the danger! Jesus ate with sinners. Let us never forget that.

Joe.

Agreed! It’s hard to tell someone they are a sinner and need to repent if you’re unwilling to treat them the way Matthew was treated from the get-go, though, isn’t it!

Joe,

Many churches are losing the culture war not because we have lights and bands but because most pastors do not get the culture they live within. They simply do not understand the language the culture around them speaks and so they keep speaking this amazingly timeless message in a differently language. I traveled to India recently. What if I spoke the Gospel there in English, using American terms, illustrations and slang. Who in Kashmir would get that? What If I did this and then blamed the beautiful people of Kashmir for not understanding a different language? That is what is happening in the church today. We are speaking a different language than our culture and then blaming the culture. Or what if I went to India and learned the language? I spoke it fluently and in doing so saw thousands of people come to know Christ. Then when I returned home I was criticized by people who said, “silly pastor; the bible is supposed to only be spoken in KJV English.” “Shame on you for adapting to the culture, shame on you for reaching people in their language. You must have compromised the Gospel for the sake of the language. You must want it to be easy and only shallow decisions were made. Shame on you pastor for entertaining and working hard to know the language of the Indian people. Shame on you pastor for not making the Indian people learn your language to show their real desire for Jesus.”

Shouting does not make the message any more clear if the hearer cannot understand the language you speak.

What do you do for a living Joe?  Are you a pastor?  Have you ever been a pastor?  You seem like a sincere guy but I am wondering your experience since you site it often.  I do not know of any posters here who only deal with the “good news” portion of scripture nor do I think we are saying that.  I do however after 27 years of ministry find a great deal of pastors are disconnected from the culture and a great deal of Christians are as well.  The language of the church is not necessarily the language of the culture.  We live in a post Christian nation where the un-churched by far outnumber the churched.  Where I live only about 6% of the population attends an evangelical bible believing church each week.  As hard as that might be to believe, many people do not know who Moses is, Noah is, Jonah is and I run into people all the time who have no clue as to who Jesus is.  They have been taught that God grades on a curve and that if they have been out sinned by someone else they will be just fine when they face whoever on that day.  It is naive to assume they get language of faith and worship. 

It is also naïve to assume that because someone breaks the truth of God’s word pieces so a person who has never heard the concepts of faith can understand that truth is watering down the message.  You read an argument into my words that is simply not there. I did not say the culture difference was bigger, I simply illustrated that there is a real culture difference.  Take time to read carefully the posts and please don’t put your spin on my words.

Thanks Joe, I am not attacking you or your experience, I just find that it is easier to communicate with people once you know a bit about them.  I would not even suggest for a second that you do not take seriously your responsibility to find a place for your family that teaches God’s word rightly.  I am a Senior Pastor and have been for just over 10 years, I was a missionary for 11 and a youth pastor for almost 6.  I travel and speak and currently pastor a church that I have planted.  I am married and have a couple kids and have been following Jesus for over 40 years.  That’s me in a nutshell. 

You pose some great questions about what does a pastor or people have to do to be connected to the culture.  Does he or they have to know the x games, skateboard etc?  My gut reaction is that it helps but knowledge is not the only thing that connects people.  Here is my understanding of Jesus’ ministry.  He knew people.  Often we read of Jesus knowing what was in the hearts of men, telling stories that relate to the audience and speaking exactly the right message at the right time.  Not every message was about law, hell, heaven or God’s kingdom.  Every message was right for the time.  Why?  Partly because he knew people and how to connect.  Another key for Jesus was he knew the word.  It helped that he wrote it so to speak but he knew it inside and out.  This empowered his ability to connect.  Thirdly he knew the Father.  Jesus connection to the Father amazes me.  He did EVERYTHING the father wanted.  Jesus was in perfect harmony with the Holy Spirit.  Finally, Jesus primary mission was to honor the father by redeeming mankind.  This missional mindset created for Jesus a crystal clear razor sharp edge to Jesus’ ministry and teaching.  Raising the dead didn’t hurt either. 

For me and my church and I assume the best for the men and women who post here as well; Our driving mission is to honor the Father by bringing the redemption of God to people.  Do I mention hell every week?  No I don’t nor do I mention heaven every week.  Do I proclaim Christ Crucified, buried and raised every week?  Yes I do.  Do I proclaim Christ as the Only way to the Father every week?  Yes I do.  Do I proclaim that by faith and faith only a person can be forgiven of their sin and made knew?  Absolutely.

I do not think we are experiencing revival or awaking in the states right now.  I believe the church as a whole it losing ground here in North America.  I am hopeful and not discouraged and will spend all my days giving all I have to this Jesus who gave himself for me. 

Joe can I encourage you to see yourself less as a watchdog and more as an ambassador for Christ.  I mean this as no attack, but you are new here and have assumed less than the best of the people who post on this site as to our views of ministry and relevancy.  I think your heart is sincere and might I encourage you to focus that sincerity on proclaiming Christ not fixing people you do not know. 

I grew up in a church that suspected every other church, every other ministry and every other leader.  We held them up to scrutiny knowing in our heart they were already wrong.  Methodist, Presbyterians, Lutherans, EV Free, Charismatic, Southern Baptists… it didn’t matter they just weren’t us.  We had bible reasons why we felt this way and read every story about abuses of theology and scripture to feed our indignation.  If the internet was around back then, The Slice would have been our home.  Then one night I was thinking about the people who did not know Jesus and began to weep.  My church had never led on person to Christ and I was embarrassed.  I vowed to keep myself true to the word but be passionate about reaching the lost, growing them to maturity in Christ and then encouraging them to discover God’s design for their lives. 

Over the next three years I led over 100 of my friends to Christ and brought them to my church.  The organ played loudly, the pastor explained in words and terms that came out of 1952 or earlier calling the style “God’s way.” My church, to my recollection, never lead anyone to Christ in the 10 or so years I was there except for the people I shared Christ with.  The church has 20 people in it right now who spend their time as watchdogs not ambassadors.  The scrutinize the church, pointing out the compromise, flaws and errors but do not grow anyone to maturity in Christ, empower anyone to lead for Christ and they certainly do not reach the lost.  But boy do they feel good about how true they are. 

I interact with you Joe because I see myself in your words.  I am deeply concerned with the church and that is partly why I endure as a pastor. I think the watchdogs are not helping but rather hurting the cause of Christ.  They do not reach people for Christ they simply condemn the ones who do.  I would also encourage you to see the huge difference in style and substance.  Our best bet of introducing people to a timeless God is not 300 year old songs.

Joe writes “You are wrong in your generalizations that all those who criticize are not about leading people to Christ”

Joe… not what Leonard said. I think you’re setting up some straw men here. Thanks for your perspective, though.