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Rick Warren Clarifies His Take on Gay Marriage
Orginally published on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 at 8:30 AM
by Todd Rhoades
Here’s part of the transcript:
“You know Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told in the first place. I am not an anti-gay or anti-marriage activist. Never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement. Never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going.
“The week before the vote, somebody in my church said, ‘Pastor Rick, what do you think about this?’ And I sent a note to my own members that said, ‘I actually believe that marriage really should be defined - that that definition should be saved between a man and a woman.’ And then all of a suddenly out of it they made me, you know something that I really wasn’t. …
“I wrote to all my gay friends, the leaders that I knew and actually apologized to them. That never got out. There were some things said - everybody should have 10% grace when they say public statements and I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that. All of the criticism came from people that didn’t know me. Not a single criticism came from any gay leader that knows me and knows that for years we’ve been working together on AIDS issues.”
Any thoughts?
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There are 44 Comments:
Hi... I'm Todd Rhoades. I'm a Christ-follower, husband, father and I love to connect leaders with other leaders. Hopefully you'll find something here at MMI you like and will return often. If you want, you can find out more about me or follow my every step on Twitter.
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 8:36 AM
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Posted by Kim
Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 9:10 AM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 9:59 AM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 10:19 AM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 10:40 AM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 11:42 AM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 12:46 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 12:56 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 1:35 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 1:36 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 1:50 PM
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Posted by Russell Mckinney
Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 2:28 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 3:59 PM
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Thursday, April 09, 2009 at 6:19 PM
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Friday, April 10, 2009 at 1:11 AM
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Friday, April 10, 2009 at 11:29 AM
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Posted by KingShasta
Sunday, April 12, 2009 at 5:24 PM
Post Your Comments:Kim said:
“Some of you here, who are already saved and bible savvy enough to know if he’s theologically correct, would have been satisfied with his performance had he done that. But what might it have cost in souls?”
What pablum!
You equate “souls” with attendees to buildings where they hear watered-down versions of the gospel to the point where it no longer IS the gospel.
Even when they brought the adulterous woman to Jesus, He acknowledged that what she did was sin in warning her. So why couldn’t have Warren said that homosexuality is sin? It’s not whether he states a fact but in how or what demeanor he states the fact.
Kim, Jesus is the Way, THE TRUTH and the Life and we should always speak and stand by the truth.
Stop awarding yourself salvation notches just because people come and sit in a pew.
You equate “souls” with attendees to buildings where they hear watered-down versions of the gospel to the point where it no longer IS the gospel.
I do? Where did I say that?
Stop awarding yourself salvation notches just because people come and sit in a pew.
I do this? Really? What did I write that gave you that impression?
Interesting…
Okay, there’s been some asking for scripture for criticizing what Rick Warren said on Larry King. Let me give some. (By the way, I’m typing in a calm, rational, conversational tone and I didn’t sit up all night looking these up):
1: John 7:24: Jesus actually commands us to “judge” with righteous judgment.
2: 1 Cor. 5:3: Paul “judged” a sinful situation in Corinth (the Warren situation is not even close to being on par with this, but the point is that Paul didn’t mind calling behavior wrong if the shoe fit).
3: 1 John 4:1: John commands us to “test” the spirits because the world is filled with false prophets (NO, I DON’T think that Rick Warren is a false prophet. But, as a Christian, I should test words).
4. 1 Cor. 14:29-32: In early church meetings, so-called “words from God” had to be “judged.”
5. Rev. 2:2: Jesus praised the church of Ephesus for “testing” those who claimed to be apostles.
6. 2 Thess. 5:21: Paul commands us to “test all things” and “hold fast” only what is “good.”
7. Acts 17:11: The Christians of Berea used scripture to examine everything Paul and Silas said before they believed them.
8. Galatians 2:11: Paul publicly opposed Peter because of Peter’s wrong behavior.
9. John 3:10: Jesus came down harder on Nicodemus because Nicodemus was a well-known, national teacher in Israel.
10. James 5:19-20: These verses speak of one of the “brethren” (Christians) erring from the truth and another Christian who “turns him back.”
11. 2 Thess. 3:6: Paul says we should “withdraw” from every Christian brother who walks “disorderly.” (I’m NOT putting Warren in this category. I’m just showing that it is possible for even Christians to get off track in what they teach.)
12. James 3:1: This verse clearly shows us that Christian teachers must be held to a high level of accountability (let alone those teachers who have the ear of a nation).
Now, one last thing, the Matthew 7:1-5 about “specks” and “planks” is a word about HYPOCRITICAL judging. A speck and a plank are both pieces of wood. One is just smaller than the other. If I criticize Rick Warren for going on Larry King and not sounding strong enough on gay marriage, but then I never preach against homosexuality in my own church, then I’m in violation of the passage.
For the record, I didn’t ask for scripture supporting the “right to judge.” I don’t think anyone else did, either.
I asked what did Warren say or do that was not faithful to the Word of God?
“Even when they brought the adulterous woman to Jesus, He acknowledged that what she did was sin in warning her.”
Very true, Jesus warned her one-on-one. Publically he knew that the Pharasees needed to understand something else… They already knew it was sin. From what I see, Jesus didn’t get up on a stump or mountain top and blast her sin, he reached down, looked her in the eyes and engaged her.
I don’t really know if anyone is going to doubt whether homosexual activity is sinful (Biblically speaking) just because Rick Warren didn’t take that opportunity to remind them. I personally don’t need him to tell me it is… I kinda think that the gay community is waiting to hear what we have to say after “homosexual activity is sin” is stated…
No, Kim, you didn’t ask for scripture. Dave Z did. That’s the only reason I gave them. Also, they weren’t about the RIGHT to judge. They dealt with the Christian RESPONSIBILITY to judge (discern). You’re using “judge” in one way, and I’m using it in another. I kind of knew those verses would be taken wrongly when I brought them up. Anyway, to answer your question, when Jimmy Swaggert went on national television, told us he had repented of his adultery, and asked us to forgive him, what did he say or do that was not faithful to the word of God? Nothing. King David was an adulterer too. When Ted Haggard did the same thing concerning his homosexuality and drug use, what did he say or do that was not faithful to the word of God? Nothing. The Bible says to repent of the sin and confess it. But why was it so particularly devastating for Swaggert, Haggard, and David to not live up to what they should have been? It’s because of the position of prominence they held. Rick Warren is a long way from a backwoods preacher with a congregation of ten. He is a recognized man of God in America. He even carries the unofficial title of “America’s pastor.” As such, God expects him to not be shy about calling blatant sin what it is. Jesus said, “to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.” You keep fixating on that one interview when the point some of us are trying to make is that Rick Warren really does seem to be in the process of taking his ministry down a dangerous path. As a pastor, I can’t even fathom the pastor of the LARGEST church in California keeping his views on Prop. 48 so low key that one of his members finally had to ask him where he stood a week or so before that historic election. We’re not talking about a debatable issue here. If the Bible doesn’t label homosexuality and gay marriage as sin, it doesn’t label anything as sin! There’s a problem with Rick Warren, even if you can’t see it right now. Read the Old Testament prophets, the men of God who had the ear of Israel and her kings. Their words don’t have quite the same tone that Warren’s have had lately.
Is Rick Warren lying?:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=481280
he following is a complete transcript of Warren’s comments just weeks before the Prop. 8 election:
“The election’s coming just in a couple of weeks, and I hope you’re praying about your vote. One of the propositions, of course, that I want to mention is Proposition 8, which is the proposition that had to be instituted because the courts threw out the will of the people. And a court of four guys actually voted to change a definition of marriage that has been going for 5,000 years.
“Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8—and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear.
“This is one thing, friends, that all politicians tend to agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain, I flat-out asked both of them: what is your definition of marriage? And they both said the same thing—it is the traditional, historic, universal definition of marriage: one man and one woman, for life. And every culture for 5,000 years, and every religion for 5,000 years, has said the definition of marriage is between one man and a woman.
“Now here’s an interesting thing. There are about two percent of Americans [who] are homosexual or gay/lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years.
“This is not even just a Christian issue—it’s a humanitarian and human issue that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love, and procreation.
“So I urge you to support Proposition 8, and pass that word on. I’m going to be sending out a note to pastors on what I believe about this. But everybody knows what I believe about it. They heard me at the Civil Forum when I asked both Obama and McCain on their views.”
Here’s part of the transcript:
“You know Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told in the first place. I am not an anti-gay or anti-marriage activist. Never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement. Never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going. “
Now watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0
Is Rick Warren being truthful?
It seems to me that it was the religious folks who criticized Jesus when he was hanging out and showing love to sinners. Maybe we should learn about how to “love individuals” like Warren talked about in the interview. More often we seem too concerned with protecting our chosen tradition, stance, or denomination to stop and actually consider the example Jesus showed us in Scripture.
Also: make sure before you actually talk about this interview that you have watched or read the entire thing: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0904/06/lkl.01.html
I have seen much less Christ-like comments in comments on this site than anything he said on air.
Sam,
I don’t know if he lied or not. All I had to go on was what came from his own lips on the Larry King show. The comments in your first post are the kind of thing I wanted to hear him say on Larry King. In whatever I’ve written on this discussion board, I’ve never once said that Rick Warren was pro-homosexual or pro-gay marriage. He’s not. I just want him to consistently be the guy who made those comments in your first post.
Russell,
Warren said:
“During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement. Never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop. 8 was going”
But when you watch this, it contradicts what he just said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0
The whole matter hurts Warren’s credibility.
Just google Warren’s name and look at the news stories where people are calling him a liar.
Okay, Sam and Jim. I clicked on your links and got the full picture of both sides. I don’t know why Rick Warren contradicted himself . It just adds more fuel to my point that there ought to be some warning flags up concerning him.
“You’re using “judge” in one way, and I’m using it in another.”
I don’t believe so. “right” vs “responsibility” - we both meant the same thing, just bad word choice on my part. My apology for the confusion.
“I kind of knew those verses would be taken wrongly when I brought them up.”
Why would you even say something like that to me? You don’t even know me.
Jim then said: ‘I have seen much less Christ-like comments in comments on this site than anything he said on air.”
I can only hope there aren’t any non-believers who wander in here. Some of you guys are pastors, and yet my sincere questions have been met with a great deal of patronizing sarcasm. And I still don’t see where Rick Warren has not been faithful to the Word of God.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.”
Please, brothers - lets take these words to heart.
Kim, when I said I thought those verses would be taken wrongly, I didn’t address that to you personally. That was for the general crowd out there in cyberspace. Anytime anybody starts throwing around passages such as those, somebody somewhere will usually bring up the word “Pharisee.” As for your sincere questions, in my opinion (and I get one) I’ve tried to answer them in about three different ways. I’m tired of trying. Run the links that Sam has provided and read the comments associated with them. You’ll find that a good many people, like myself and others in this discussion, have genuine problems with Rick Warren. As for JIm’s word about the lack of “Christ-like comments,” Jesus had many sides to His character. He wasn’t just all mush and gush. Neither was Paul, Peter, or John. I’ve said my peace now and I’ll stand by it. Believe what you want. I’m ready for another discussion.
Ah Kim,
You sound a little paranoid about Russell’s “I kind of knew those verses would be taken wrongly when I brought them up,”
when you say::::: Why would you even say something like that to me? You don’t even know me.
fishon
As much as I like Rick, and as much as I defend him often, very much on this particular site as a matter of fact…
Sam, it’s undeniable that you are right when you point out that Warren has been talking out both sides of his mouth. I can’t take the time to check the sources for your sources, but I seem to recall reading that statement around election time, and it seems valid as I recall.
Rick, I love you, I know you are doing some amazing great stuff for the kingdom… but you need to be clearer here. Please don’t mollycoddle. Perhaps you should have been silent on Prop 8 in the first place.
You weren’t. You can apologize, but please do not say “I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement” when you did.
Thanks, Sam, for bringing this to our attention.
“never made a statement for prop 8?”
Look through additional videos above...there’s a direct endorsement of prop 8 by Rick Warren.
I have read all the comments on this thread and I don’t know why it would surprise me that after this CLEAR example of infidelity to Scripture by Rick Warren there are still people who defend him as a doctrinally sound preacher of God’s Word.
The Purpose Driven Church was the first clue to his “man-centered” message and his fence straddling on such a Biblical issue as the definition of marriage is its fruition. He is like a church in Baton Rouge that I once attended. The focus is on being popular and the praises of men than the truth of Scripture at all costs.
I hate to say it but....I told you so!
Russell...great points on your part.
I hate to lump Pastor Rick Warren in the same category as Ted Haggard, but I’m seeing bold inconsistency between this new video and his video released in 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0
For what it’s worth, I agree with every word of his 2008 video.
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