Is there a warrenfatigue.com?

Just wondering

Energy and motivation of the leader is critical, but I wonder if Rick Warren would have readily made that statement (not worrying about the growth of the church) back when Saddleback was first starting up? Doubtful.  Guess that old saying about everything being relative might apply?

I could not agree more.  In any ministry, the leader sets the pace and if the pace is lethargic, even a good church can have stunted growth.  Growth of people is what grows a church.  And, the leaders need to model that in some way.

Todd,

I thought I posted my answer to the question..."Energy and motivation of the leader is critical...”, then commented further for discussion.

I’m new to this forum and not up on the rules and regulations for posting, so please forgive me if I was out of line. I’m just accustomed to posting more than a “yes, no, maybe, it depends” type of reply.

I-am-not, but I know I AM

I_Am_Not.....just from your screenname it looks like you are a fan of Louie Giglio......and in response to your first post when you said “but I wonder if Rick Warren would have readily made that statement (not worrying about the growth of the church) back when Saddleback was first starting up? Doubtful.”

The quote from Rick Warren answers that when he said that he only ever had two goals for the church’s growth (that seemed seperate from his personal growth because he talks about that later) and that he met those goals in the first year....so yeah...he was worried about it but he set goals and God blessed him with the achievment of those goals....and then I think that I would agree with him and most everyone else that’s posted here and say that the growth of the pastor and elders and any other leadership taking face within a church needs to be growing at a steady pace of the church itself will not grow because sadly, churches are like children and they will model after the parent (leadership) if the parent does or doesn’t do something the child will more thant likely follow suit....there are the rare occasions when the leadership is falling apart and the church just keeps getting bigger and bigger but that eventually leads to a collapse anyways.....then there is the church’s that can’t seem to grow dispite a forward moving leading body......God does what God will I suppose....

Seth, I think that it is possible to have a leader outpace the church.....but I wonder how much of that is the leader getting ambitions that they probably should not be having right then....so you must question if they are growing or just trying to act like they want the church to be to get the church there......now, God being soverign and all He blesses who He wants and why but doesn’t it usually go that those who are really following after Him get pruned back and face trials?.....my thought would be that the churches whose leaders are going through trials of some kind are those that are acctually growing.... just a thought.....a long thought, sorry about my long wind today

My question may have been a little misunderstood (and that’s my fault) but it was an honest question.  I probably should have qualified the question with a phrase such as, “with the best intentions and motives, is it possible for a leader to outpace those who he is leading” It would have exposed the heart of the question more I think.

I really have come to believe that success in almost any arena in life has to do with balance. 

And the question had to do more with this type of leader. A leader who is extremely driven and passionate to grow.  It’s a balance of knowing when to expose the information you have gained as the leader and witholding it other times for a more appropriate time.  Does that make sense?  It’s a balance of growing others while not stumping yourself.

I think what may help prevent this is the leader consistently giving of himself to grow others… raising up leaders out of what God is doing in them personally.  It’s both/ and.  Growing yourself to grow others.

Robert Kiosaki, Carlton Sheets, Zig Zigler, Anthony Robbins and a multitude of other self-help folks use terms like “energy” and “motivation” to drive success.

Could it be Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are just Christian versions of self-help gurus?

Which would scrape against the Doctrines (teachings) of scripture…

Deny self
take up your cross
Pride
etc

I’m wondering whatever happened to the prieshood of believers (a key emphasis of the reformation)?  From everything I read, it seems like pastors have become the new priests ~ this specialized group of religious professionals that don’t serve the church, they are the church...I may be off on that, but some days I wonder about an over emphasis on the role of the leader.

At the same time, the “pastor as key leader, motivator, mover, etc.” works well within a leadership environment that is staff driven (like Saddleback, etc.) But when you lead in a congregation that is fiercely congregational in it’s make-up or history, it can be a different story.  So what do leaders need to be doing in order to release the God-given gifts of the people? 

I don’t think a church will be healthy if the pastor and elders are lazy, lack a passion and vision...so I’m not suggesting the spiritual vitality of leaders is not important.  But at the same time, I think getting people to use their gifts and resources to make disciples is the essential challenge of the leader.

Peace in Christ,

mdd

I am seeing a lot of Christians that seem to fall into the fallacy that Christianity is about feelings. I find it alarming to see churches preach the name it and claim it philosophy. Christ said in this life we will have tribulations but to fear not as he is with us.
I don’t quite understand the theory behind the Purpose Driven Life. Isn’t our purpose to glorify God, even though this side of heaven our efforts will be imperfect?