Todd, you post about small churches and mega-churches.  How about the positives/negatives of a medium sized church… one in which there are 3 or 4 pastors on staff (not just 1 or more than 5)?

Maybe the middle way, the third way, is the way to go?  It may get the best of both worlds-- enough income to support the pastors, yet small enough to have community.  As it grows, it can plant new churches… so the size is healthy and stays pretty healthy, meanwhile growing by spinning-off peer leaders/churches.

Having served as a pastor in a smaller church, about 90 people and I the only paid staff, the biggest issue there was is that if there was nobody that week, or we had a cancellation guess who cleaned, folded bulletins, took out garbage, set up tables and chairs, picked out the music-- NONE of which are below a pastor at all but does take time away from preparation and people-- Small church pastors that are successful in the long run are those who can delegate and manage their time very well! It is a tough job and I commend them!

Bernie:

“As it grows, it can plant new churches… so the size is healthy and stays pretty healthy, meanwhile growing by spinning-off peer leaders/churches.”

Some time ago, I read about a fellowship of 350 in Florida who believed that to become any larger would cost them their community, not to mention the hell it is to drag people through never-ending building programs.

They had it written in their by-laws that once the congregation reached 350, they planted an new fellowship in that same city.  To date, they had planted 10-12 new fellowships.

They believed that they were called to win their city and that a single place could not do it (as has proven thus far) so they determined to plant as many fellowships as possible throughout the city.  In addition, being in the same city afforded them the opportunity to stay connected relationally with all of the subsequent, new fellowships.

I pastor a small church (50-60 on a given Sunday), and I see some of these disadvantages.

However, after our church went through a horrific split about 11 years ago (before I got here, by the way ), the remaining people were ready to move ahead and God is moving.  So far, my biggest headaches have had to do with control of the kitchen and some of the music choices, but nothing on a major scale (thank you, Jesus!) in my five years here.

We’ve put some programs in place, not because programs are the end all, but it gave us something tangible to use, and to measure effectiveness.  We’ve dropped and modified some things as well.

We’re in a town of 25,000 people and are looking to impact a large amount of people, and maybe plant another church in our town near the university, Lord willing, as well as support other church plants in a neighboring state.

I think that if small churches (in larger areas - not necessarily small churches in small towns or rural areas, but hey - I don’t want to limit God, either!) can adopt an attitude like the one mentioned in Florida, then exciting things can happen.

To small churches, I ask this: is the job done?  Are all the people in your area either saved or been exposed to the gospel numerous times?  Are all of your people discipled and mature in the faith?  If the answer is no to any of these, then you still have a job to do.  God can and does move in the midst of the small church, if they’ll let him.

I might also add that in our area we have a rural church that is building a huge new sanctuary because they can’t hold everybody.  This church is 15 miles from the nearest town - it’s literally on the edge of a cornfield.  But God is moving!  It’s wonderful to see such a situation.

Brian

In one of Tony Campolo’s books (I can’t remember which, but I read it close to 20 years ago, if that helps), he relates the story of a new pastor who was asked a year after taking the helm of his church how things were going.  The pastor replied, “I preached that church down to four people, and now we’re building it back up again.”

Sometimes I wonder if that’s not what it may take in some churches - whatever their size.  It sure wouldn’t make for a popular pastor, and probably in most churches the pastor would be fired before the pruning was done.  But how do we lovingly and gracefully light a fire beneath people who are satisfied with the status quo - and who, quite frankly, are keeping people out of the kingdom (or at least ensuring they won’t enter the kingdom through the church)?

As I read the gospels, I find that Jesus’ harshest words ("you whitewashed tombs!") were for the religious leaders and his most graceful words ("neither do I condemn you") were for the sinners and outcasts.

I attended a small church in Davidson County NC, known as Bethany Church on Bethany Church Rd. I agree with everything that has been described by the author. This church was small, family owned and supported.  New people were not welcome unless they were well know by other church member or family members. The members of this church play church.  I haven’t been back to that church in years, but I hope the congregation has tuned in to Gods word.

I’m thinking whether a pastor must necessarily be a gifted evangelist. What if his gifts are indeed of a caregiving nature which he faithfully uses. The issue that raises itself in my mind, is he the kind of person that encourages (pushes?) other folks to use their gifts and is not afraid of allowing genuine leadership to develop from within the local church as well as bringing it in from “the outside”. It seems at least possible that this would be a way of “equipping the saints” for the work of the church rather than “pastor-centric” congregations.

Wow - that’s sad, man.

It sounds like this group has adopted the opposite of the first line in the first chapter of “The Purpose Driven Life,” and has decreed, “It’s all about us.”

I’m convinced that many people in these churches will have blood on their hands, because they refused to offer the reconciliation of Christ at the cost of their comfort.

I hope you have found another ministry position, if that is your heart.

I, too, am not a chaplain-type.  People are going to hell in our area, and I don’t have time to hold hands with the “already convinced.” They may not like it, but at least they’re going to heaven, which is not the case with those outside the walls!

Hospitals, nursing homes, and that kind of stuff - yes.  But visiting every member just so I can say I’ve been in their homes is ridiculous, and no one can point to one shred of Scriptural evidence to support the idea that we should do that!

Okay - switching to decaf now…

Brian

I am a pastor of a small church.  I can certainly identify with most of the disadvantages listed as well as many of the comments.  Probably the best way to approach this would be to go through the disadvantages one at a time.

1.  In our church this has not really been either a disadvantage or an advantage.  It is simply a reality.

2.  This has certainly been true in our church.  When I became pastor in 2003 the church averaged about 30-35 on Sunday mornings; now we run about 16-20.  About 7 of them (3 families) left because they did not care for my style or personality.  The rest of the decline is an example of how in a small church one person’s leaving can have a major impact.  One lady has stopped attending our Sunday morning worship so she can attend a local megachurch.  Her reason is that in that church the worship is stirring and vibrant.  (Admittedly, I’ve been to funerals that had more life than most of our worship services.) However, she attends our church regularly on Sunday evening and still gives through our church.  Her decision has caused our Sunday morning attendance to drop by 6 or 7 because she brought a group of children from her neighborhood, and they absolutely will not come with anyone else (our Children’s Director has offered to pick them up, but they refuse).  This has basically brought our children’s ministry to a screeching halt.

3.  AMEN!  AMEN!  AMEN!  One of our greatest problems is that our church lacks leaders.  I’ve read that in many small churches there is a family or individual or group that runs things, but this is not true of our church.  In fact, trying to get anyone to assume a leadership role is like pulling teeth.  We have two individuals in our church who display any interest in leadership.  They hold a number of church offices, but they have so many outside interests that they really do not lead much in the church.  The result is that I have ended up having to micromanage most of our ministries, which has been inefficient because I am an administrator and not a manager.

4.  I made it very clear before I accepted the position that if they were looking for someone who was a hands-on personal minister, who was nurturing, who would hold their hands, then I was not their man.  Indeed, some of those who have left did so because I “don’t have a personality.” I am not very good at hospital visitation (a couple of times I went and couldn’t even find the person), and I don’t visit in members’ homes unless I have a specific reason to do so (or unless they have asked me to come over).  Most of our members would prefer a more chaplain-type pastor, but at this point that is not what the church really needs, and they have come to accept that.  When I came they needed someone who could help them to dig deep into Scripture, think in new ways, and rediscover what it means to be the church.  In two and a half years I have laid a foundation where they now see that there can be a better future for the church, that even though the church is small they can do great things if they seek and do God’s will.  Now we are at a transition--the foundation is laid, it is time to build on it.  I am not the person to build on the foundation.  What our church needs now is someone who is a strong personal evangelist, which I am not.

5.  This does not describe our church at all.  Since there is not a dominant family or group, it is relatively easy for newcomers to break into the inner circle.  Indeed, our visitors often commend us on how warm and friendly we are toward them.  My wife and I are part of the family, which from what I’ve read is especially unusual for pastors.

While there are a number of disadvantages to small churches, they play a vital role in our society’s spiritual life.  With the right leadership, small churches can make a significant impact for the Kingdom.  With the wrong leadership, they can push others away from Jesus.

I just found this discussion, which is very interesting.  You might want to check out some of the discussion related to an OpEd I wrote about some of the negative implications of megachurches.  You can find it under the megachurch section of this site or find the post at my blog - davidcharlton.blogspot.com.

I agree with so much of what you all say.  I just don’t understand people like this.  You would think there would be someone in the family that would take a stand and say Iove you too much to see you go through life this way.  But it’s an old saying i can take you to the water but I can’t make you drink it. 

Some people can just fool you with there amens. And just as soon as it steps on their toes, oh my gosh!

I’m reminded of an ole saying about the sweet potatoes (when you look around in so many of our churches this day and time so many are just going just to say they went),i hear that the best of a sweet potato is under ground. Our God fearing christians are dead and gone, we can only pray that this group gets it before it’s everlasting too late.

I say to us all, let’s continue to pray for one another