OK Ricky… (I spoke too soon… I said we agreed on the last post on another topic!)

Again, I want to make the rules very clear here… everyone has every right to disagree openly here at this blog; but please do so in a respectful, non-condescending manner.

Not everything has to do with the evils of the institutionalized church.  ‘Bottom-line’ in many churches means that the bills are paid at the end of the month.  And that’s an important thing.

About the websites in question.  I would assume the $ signs strewn all about are because they are sites that deal with financial stewardship.

Not every institutionalized church laughs all the way to the bank every Sunday.  Many barely get by.  So for those churches and leaders, I hope some of Brian’s applications and suggestions are helpful.

There is a way to disagree here that is acceptable and a way that is not. For example:

Acceptable:  Todd, I disagree with the emphasis that this post and author take on financial generosity.  The church as a whole is too focused on money… ... ...

Unacceptable:  Mind games and manipulation!  God, forgive us!

I hope most everyone here can see the difference.

Further posts that I feel don’t fit the guidelines will be promptly deleted.

Todd

I thought my post was ok.  What’s up Todd?

I was addressing the missing post for this thread...mine and others.

didn’t know why they aren’t here anymore...thought they might have fallen under the sharp edge of your delete button axe

you’re exactly right Todd...silly me...there both about giving right

thanks for the heads-up.

Ricky…

Not every pastor is responsible in his teaching on stewardship; and the pastor you describe was being unethical in my mind.  Maybe unethical isn’t the right word… I think manipulative is more like it.  But I have to believe that most pastors aren’t like that.  You seem to lump everyone into the same boat because of your experience.

You’ll have to be more specific about the “multi-level marketing scheme” that uses the “worldly doctrine of stealing upon the backs of the congregants”

You said, “I can almost see the winking of the eyes going on between the shysters and the so-called “leaders” of fellowships who BUY into their schemes and purchase their products.” That sounds like a conspiracy to rip-off God’s people.  That WOULD be a big deal.  I’m not saying that never happens; but I think most pastors and churches are seeking to be wise with their stewardship, not to rip people off.  You may disagree.

“the more a fellowship focuses on the “bottom line,” the less they focus on people.” Absolutely… I do agree here.  I’ve served in ministries that have plenty of financial resources; and some that couldn’t pay their bills.  When their is a financial crisis, it can bring a stop to ministry in a quick hurry because all anyone does is worry about finances.

And finally, “I don’t believe that I’m being disrespectful to you or your rules, Todd, and how about being big enough to take the hits on the articles that YOU choose to post on your site? My words are not meant to be directed toward you in general but against the spirit of the articles.”

Problem is, I did believe your tone was the issue, not your disagreement; and I’m the one that makes the choice here unfortunately.  You know that everything I throw out here on this blog isn’t necessarily endorsed.  I haven’t looked in depth at all the websites that are listed and linked to; and I didn’t write the piece, so there has to be some lattitude given there all around.  I think I expressed in my previous post why I took exception to your post… not because you disagreed with me or an article, but the words and tone with which you did so.  I’m sticking with that assessment.  Hopefully you know Ricky, I’m a stand-up guy… I’ve taken plenty of hits; and I can take them.  But I won’t allow anyone else to get a black-eye.  It’s just not necessary.

Todd

OK -MMMMM… Mexican food…

OK, FPU is a 13-week video series designed to teach families to get out of debt and stay out of debt with a video presentation by Davie Ramsey followed by a small group discussion for accountability and discipleship. Topics covering Cash Flow Planning, Dumping Debt, Saving, Giving and much more are included.

FPU is focused on personal financial reformation instead of generating more money for the organization. Amazingly, the behavior change that comes from the thirteen week course often brings increased giving as a bi-product of the class.

At Fellowship in Little Rock we began our first class (I had taken it elsewhere one semester and facilitated a second) we did two print announcements and ended up with over 95 family units/190 people in our first class. In the past, the church had provided Crown and a few specialized seminars but yielded little or no interest. Attendance alone exceeded our expectations.

Individually, most families pay off an average of $5,000 in consumer debt and put back $2,000 in savings or retirement. If that holds true we will see close to half a million dollars for our class in retired consumer debt.

BTW – As a church utilizing video venues, the format used by FPU is especially successful for us at Fellowship because our people are used to seeing teaching via iMeg technology (we use one of the venue room for FPU and leave it set from Sunday morning)