Somedays, I think I’d be lucky if two-thirds of our congregation wanted to keep ME…

Yeah, I’d stay.

I’m not bashing congregational voting but to say it is more biblical may be a stretch. Can anyone provide one example from the Bible where a church voted on its pastor?

Regarding a Biblical basis for a congregational vote, I would point to passages such as Acts 6:3 and Titus 1:5. 

In addition, I would point to the Biblical concept of the priesthood of all believers.

Now for the hard part, can you show me a biblical passage that supports a pastor calling himself?

That’s what I meant earlier when I wrote that congregational vote is the best Biblical option
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Friends,

There has to be something in between the pastor having a “divine right” to continue shepherding the flock without input from the sheep, and leaving the decision up to a majority vote.

Evangelical Quakers (not the Universalist Quakers) have elder boards, and the pastor is one of the elders.  When it comes to decisions such as whether the pastor is still “called by God” to shepherd and teach the flock, the elders lead a meeting in which everyone in the flock (not just “members”, but everyone who is actively involved) is invited to gather together for what is often called “a meeting for worship, discernment and consensus”.

And out of this atmosphere of worship and prayer people stand and vocalize their leadings in front of everyone else.  No hiding behind a voters ballot here.  The elders are free to both listen and participate in this meeting—and then they discern and vocalize how they sense the Holy Spirit is leading the flock—and then they move people either toward a decision, or toward a measurable season of waiting that will often also include corporate fasting.  Then this process is repeated until it is clear how God is leading “the flock”.

Yes this process can take longer than a simple “vote”, where the anonymous, unanimous majority rules.  But if the goal is for a flock to seek, find and follow God’s plans, then the extra time is worth it.

Consensus doesn’t mean that every single person ends up at the same place about the decision.  But neither does it assume that the majority will always be right when discerning God’s plans.  What the consensus process does hold as important is the sacredness of the unity of spiritual community.

Teaching a flock to do this spiritual work can be a challenge, but a good book to help you do this is “Practicing Discernment Together:  Finding God’s Way Forward in Decision Making” and can be found at http://www.barclaypress.com.  Godspeed.

read.think.pray.live.

Gregg

Well, the congregation always gets to vote. Either they vote in a business meeting...or they vote with their wallet and presence. The fact is, you cannot mandate “followship” only model leadership.

The relationship between congregation and pastor is fluid, dynamic. The 30% saying “Nay” today can turn into your biggest supporters tomorrow.

I would stay until the Lord says go. Period.

Unfortunately, our congregants often leave pastors feeling that we are the dogs at a whistlers convention. The longer a member has been at a church, or the more money they give offers a false sense of empowerment to be in control.

Sadly, this is often the case with a newly ordained person or a minister who has been recently called to a church. I was once told that church charity stops at the front door. We are charitable to those outside, but often not to those in our fellowship or in leadership.

A true leader will avoid the need to politic and go running from whistle to whistle; but prayerfully chose the still small voice of the Holy Spirit. We must be diligent that the Whistlers do not drown Him out.

As far as leaving, if 2/3 of my congregation were calling for my ouster, I would ask for a week of time to “go up to the mountain to pray.” Ask the congregation-- ALL of them-- to be praying for and with you also. Spend some time in silence listening for that small voice of God. After spending that week in prayer there should be some clarity.

I have been there. I once asked the president of a congregation to fire me. I knew that I did not have the spiritual gifts needed to lead the congregation anymore. They needed an expertise that I simply did not posses. I allowed her to talk me out of it. The next eight months were hell on earth. Not only for me, but for my family, and for my church as well. And I only had 20 people who wanted me gone. 20 out of 200.  I can’t imagine what having 2/3 of my congregation demonizing me would be like. Having 20 was bad enough.

Thanks for posting that link CS

CS,

Thanks for that link. I read that article a long time ago, and I agree, it sounds right to me. Some will need to die or leave, and that’s OKAY! We all have a finite lifespan, and if a church is vital and active and in the “business” of reaching people for 50 or 60 years, but then just can’t effectively reach its culture anymore, and closes its doors, is it really so bad, if another church than can reach its culture has started and is doing it, it’s time to celebrate what that great church did during its life and not keep trying to put new wine into the old wineskins.

Peter:

“Some will need to die or leave, and that’s OKAY! We all have a finite lifespan, and if a church is vital and active and in the “business” of reaching people for 50 or 60 years, but then just can’t effectively reach its culture anymore, and closes its doors, is it really so bad, if another church than can reach its culture has started and is doing it, it’s time to celebrate what that great church did during its life and not keep trying to put new wine into the old wineskins.”

I would say that it is bad if the circumstances under which people are leaving or being asked to leave is when the preaching, teaching, and worship are not following Godly standards, and they stand for what is right.  Which, sadly, is becoming a common reason why many people are fleeing the churches in which they grew up.

Now, if people are leaving the church because they cannot digest sound doctrine and the like, hey, the door is always open.  Like some great preacher said, “The front door of a church should be harder to enter, and the back door of a church should be easy to exit.”

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CS

Peter:

“That is a generality that I’m not sure you can back up.”

The only thing I could cite are the blogs of people who have said that they felt they were pushed out / had to leave their churches when these occurred. 

“But no, let’s not continue down the “sound doctrine” line of argument again. That’s not what the post is about, and it’s not what my comment was about.”

In light of Todd’s question for our input, I will avoid delving down the “sound doctrine” path for now. 

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CS

(My apologies in going tangential here to everyone on the thread for a moment.)

Peter:

“On top of that, creating a public forum to air grievances that are supposed to be handled between individuals is pretty sloppy, ethically speaking, anyway. We’ve talked about that before here on these pages.”

In your own experience as a pastor over the years, here is something that I have been mulling over, and would like your insight.  When do you believe a situation warrants a Matthew 18 response, and when do you believe a situation requires a more public Galatians 2 or 2 Timothy 2:17 response?

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CS