Peter:

“Why would he not?”

I noticed in reading the Third Commandment that God did not put in an exclusionary clause for acting.  In fact, the proper treatment of God’s name was so serious that in Leviticus 24, a person who blasphemed God’s name was to be stoned to death.  While we don’t stone people today, this verse shows the reverence that we should have in using God’s name.

But, nowadays, people interject creative middle names into the name of our Messiah, use the G - D curse words regularly, and even “Oh my...” is regularly used on kids’ shows.  Where has the reverence gone for our Holy God? 

When an unbeliever does it, I can understand that a little more, because that person is an enemy of God.  When a person who professes to be a Christian does that, I can’t rationalize it away.

The same standard could be applied for people engaging in sexual activities or nudity in modern-day, “non-pornographic films.”

So, going back to my first post in this thread, can a “Christian” act in roles that are littered with blasphemy and obscenity, but as long as it tries to guide Hollywood to more Christian influence, it’s all good?

--
CS

I would counter with a question.

Which is Jesus more likely to condemn, profanity and blasphemy… or not doing anything for the poor? Hint: Matthew 25.

And on that… I’m out of this one.

CS –

Even if you believe (which you obviously do) that portraying sinful people doing sinful things is just as bad as doing those things yourself, you can’t make a biblical case that we are supposed to be the sin police and denounce one another for our sin.  Unless you and Denzel are buds, then you can offer him counsel.  Otherwise, I believe you need to leave his accountability to his pastor and his own network of Christian advisors.

As I type the above words, I wonder why I think I have the right to criticize the conservative Christian political right, as I have vehemently on this very forum.  Some of you might find me a hypocrite, and I welcome your feedback.  Here is why I think I’m not.

I find fault with Christian conservatives who lobby to persuade politicians about the “evangelical vote” (I am so sick of that phrase), because their power is dependent upon their ability to convince politicians that they speak for me.  I never gave anyone the right to speak for me, and on many issues the are far from representing my views.  Yet, to those outside the faith, because this conservative Christian lobbyists have done such a good job over the years, I have to convince people I am not in their camp in order to have a conversation.

Hollywood Christians don’t claim to speak for anyone but themselves.  The movies Denzel and others make don’t cause me to be painted with the same brush, because my life can speak for itself. 

Granted, Todd invited us into this discussion so CS and others have been invited to offer their opinion about these people as influential Christians.  My problem isn’t that we would state and have different opinions, but that any random Christian believes he/she has the right to tell all others how to live, or worse, that any Christian would question whether someone who professes to be a Christ follower really is one. 

CS – you asked me: [Please direct me to a verse in the Bible where when someone claims to be a Christ-follower, that we should just accept this and let it be?]

First, I cannot think of a place in the NT that admonishes us to question whether someone who “claims” to be a Christ follower really is one, and that we should put all their actions under our microscope - - - when that person is not part of our church or family or network of Christian relationships - - - when we don’t even know the person.  Our church is not jeopardized, nor is our family (we can counter their influence). 

So in the absence of instruction to do so, in this case, I would answer your question by saying that Jesus words about not judging apply, that the bible instructs us to let Denzel be (except to teach our family and those we have been given to shepherd as we believe the Lord has led us.)

Wendi

Wendi:

Jim covered many of the points I had with better precision.  I admit, I can be a bit of a blunt object dropped on the head when it comes to many of the posts here, and sometimes other people voice things better than me.  Addressing one point you said:

“First, I cannot think of a place in the NT that admonishes us to question whether someone who “claims” to be a Christ follower really is one, and that we should put all their actions under our microscope - - - when that person is not part of our church or family or network of Christian relationships - - - when we don’t even know the person.  Our church is not jeopardized, nor is our family (we can counter their influence). “

Aside from examinations of fruits, as Jim referenced, I can provide examples in the NT when people are examined publicly.  Paul calls Peter out in the Book of Galatians publicly when he was teaching about circumcision improperly.  Paul also cautions against several people by name, such as Alexander the coppersmith and Hymenaeus.  We are warned in all sorts of places such as Jude about various people, and cautioned of false teachers in other books (not to say these actors are teachers, mind you).

Many cite Matthew 18 for rebuking people privately and only with intimate knowledge.  However, those verses are for when a brother sins against you.  If private admonishment was the mode provided for erroneous theological teaching or acting out of turn in public, Paul likely wouldn’t have called out Peter the way he did on that topic. 

--
CS

Wendi:

“Otherwise, I believe you need to leave his accountability to his pastor and his own network of Christian advisors.”

What a load.

Aren’t those of us who call on the name of Christ in the same Body?  As a former police officer, I can tell you that when bad policemen are exposed, we all shudder because we wear the same uniform.

When a professing “Christian” sells himself/herself out for money whether it be for sex or just “playing roles,” how is the witness of the Body of Christ strengthened?

It is not because it causes damage to all who profess to be “Christians.”

And this business that only certain people are in a position to judge the actions of another person is ridiculous and underscores the immaturity that is rampant in the Body of Christ.

And in my opinion, there are several reasons our scriptural examples for accountability are only those with whom we have a relationship.  Once we start publically calling one another out, those outside the faith watch on and think to themselves “why on earth would I want to become part of that group,” and who could blame them.  Plus, when we get into the habit of criticizing people who cannot respond to us, check us on our words and motives, we become very susceptible to “log/eye syndrome,” and less likely to respond when the HS nudges us about our own sins.  Finally, it’s just not effective.  I feel quite sure that Peter responded to Paul’s admonishment because they he knew that Paul knew him and loved him.  I doubt that the response would have been the same if a stranger walked into town and called him out.

Wendi

[I would also say that when those outside the faith watch on and see people who profess themselves to be Christians behaving distinctly in a non-Christian way by breaking the core Commandments, they must also think to themselves, “why on earth would I want to become part of that group?” and who could blame them?]

This is also the frustration that I feel when people think that as a Christ-follower, I am represented by people like Oral and Richard Roberts or Pat Robertson or ______________(fill in the blank).