On your quote that 50% of the pastors today would leve if they could just find another income. That tells volumes of the men who are pastoring today who do not look at ministry as a calling. They look at it as a job or a vocation. May be if more looked at ministry as a calling and re evaluated weither or not they were relly called or they just went into the ministry out of Bible school or seminary. It has to be a call from God on our lives to do the ministry of God.

A professor in seminary once said, “If you can do any thing else, do it.” He was refering to the call to ministry. If you can comfortably do a job outside of ministry without looking back and asking, “what if...?” then do it. I believe we have to do ministry like that Spanish invader of Mexico hundreds of years ago. As they got off of their ships, he ordered that the ships be burnt so that they would not look back and keep going forward.

If we keep looking back on what might have been instead of what could be would make all of the difference in in how we see and do ministry.

Thanks, Phil… hope I can meet you at the conference this year… I’ll be there as well.

I think Brad would say that the ‘communicating the gospel’ is much more than just the preaching; and includes the things that you mention as well.  Those, for sure, have been a big part of the NorthRidge transition.

Todd

Yes Todd let’s get together during that conference!  It would be awesome.  BTW, sorry for not sending the fourth article.  I will do so, if I still can, in a week or so when things calm down here.  Still in process of selling my home in NJ and the business as well!  Ugh ... all that besides raising two teens and pastoring a transitioning church!  LOL God has a sense of humor.  Anyway ... if the opportunity still stands ... I’ll do it.  You’ve got my email if you want to get together.  If so I’ll send you my cell #.

BTW, the last writer - Ed - mentions a very good point.  A pastor’s wife can make all the difference in the world.  Me, I’ve been blessed with a wife among wifes!  A blessing beyond words and an incredible resource of listening, encouragement, and love that without those things I don’t believe I would have ever been able to see this dream of ministering come true!  I’m looking forward to my 25th Anniv this May!

Praise God!

I agree with Ed about those who step out to get “refreshed”. I took a one year hiatus after going through 2-3 bad church situations.  I took that year to make sure I was in ministry for the right reasons, that it was a call from God. I couldn’t escape it. I knew in my spirit that this is what God had for me to do, He just “adjusted” my ministry and although it hasn’t been just gravy, it has been a great journey with the Lord.

And question #2 our church is in the 90%. We are holding after a 10 year slow decline, but there are still those who look back to “glory days” and don’t understand why we need to rethink the way we do things.

Culture.  What Culture? 

I just moved about 85 miles from one suburb of LA to another.  I knew there would be ministry changes relating to culture so months ago I started observing the different cultures.  What I found is that both areas don’t have one culture but many.  There are the haves and have nots… both having different language, experiences, priorities and prejudices.  There are modern and post modern both vastly different and near distain for the other.  There are 3 to 4 primary ethnic cultures… I’m a minority being American.  There are a multitude of religious cultures ranging from conservative Christianity to Dyanetics. 

When someone says “culturally relevant” it seems to me they mean making a choice to be culturally relevant to one at the exclusion of the others.  Rick Warren says, in The Purpose Driven Church, that the others don’t matter… they’ll find their church elsewhere.  I think, while this is pragmatic so long as you choose the most dominate culture like Rick Warren did, it is not representative of Jesus’ ministry to the Samaritans, the Persians, those in Decapolis, the Roman soldiers, the farmers in Galilee, the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, the peasants there too and the young and old.  Like Jesus, we live in fragmented culture but the Gospel found a way to all.  I always wonder if being “culturally relevant” is an excuse for not being relevant to the world as described in Acts 1:8.  I believe we are called to greater things… not simply the culture in which we are immersed. 

Love,

John

Just an insert to a couple things I heard being said. Ministry is a call, true and if given the opportunity to leave some would.
Both statements have truth and some cultural “tainting”. I think we need to remember that full-time ministry is what we are ALL called to, whether we’re pumping gas or a store clerk. We are ambassadors whether being paid by an employer or the employer is the church.
Now, we also have to remember that Paul and the rest of the apostles all had other income to fund their ministry. Paul a tent maker took his income from that so he could preach freely.
How many of you in ministry make decisions based upon whether or not it is politically correct with your board or congregation? I know too many that do because their job is in jeopardy if they don’t follow suit.
If I could make my living at something else and give full-time to ministry I’d jump at it. For two reasons: 1). Then I’m never owned and operated by the politics of the church. 2). It wouldn’t drain the finances of the church to pay my salary. That $ could be invested a hundred different ways: feed the poor, help widows and orphans.
I’ve been in ministry 25 years full-time. I love ministry, I love serving the Lord and His church, but I HATE with a passion the carnal politics of favoritism, triangulation and posing.
I’m overjoyed for the man who is in the ministry after years of being in the worlds business. But I warn you, the security of ministry has a price tag with it. Go against the doctrine, or wishes of the board or a consistory and you’re in for a fight, and that may not be so pretty as you think.
One last entry: Christ was a free-lance Diety. Not one owned Him, maniputaled Him, bossed Him around or pursuaded Him against His true call. Paul said owe no man anything but “Love”. Jesus and Paul never owed the church politics their loyalty or their devotion. They owed them the truth and sometimes it hurt, and it angered some of the church officials to criticism.
It’s a tight rope we walk and for those who like the games and fun of being a politician, churchianity is right up their alley. But if you want a church alive, healthy, vibrant and cutting edge it will cost you. But the results are worth the effort to get there.
I think I would err on the side of making my living doing something else and giving my time to the ministry. Then I know my motives are pure.  At times I’m mixed and I hate have a double minded motive.
Thanks for your many challenging and deep contributions to this topic. I appreciate everyone of you and your perspective. We all come to some conclusion and then live that out. The important thing is that we live out serving Our Lord with a full, rich and loving heart.
Blessings, JIM

Interesting article.  Not sure I agree with all the statistics.  I’d like to read the studies that Powell refers to.  God is in the business of blessing His church.  There is the human part - our unselish service - and the divine part which sometimes is a mystery.  We have one church that is growing quiet well in the local association.  I asked a member what the secret was...location.  The person stated that they do not do anything different from other churches.  They have a traditional worship service, the pastor is a faithfu man but not the greatest public speaker, they struggle with volunteers for the nursery and children’s ministry, and the youth program is “so-so”.  They have an outreach program where 20 percent of those signed up actually visit.  And God blesses the church with growth.

If the 50 percent of the pastors who want to leave would leave, maybe their churches might grow.  Pastoring is a calling.  Period.  We are called to serve.  Last Sunday I came home from worship and for the first time my wife said, “I can’t find anything to criticize about the worship. All went well.” I went to find the thermometer to take her temperature as she obviously had a fever [ha, ha].  It has taken us 12 years to achieve these results.  We have had to do a lot of changing over the past 12 years.  Discipleship requires change.  And it is a process. 

One thing that should be considered is length of ministry.  When pastorates only average 4 years, how can one expect any change to take place?  If it took 20 years to the church to get where its at...it’s going to take a pastor committed to a long term pastorate to turn things around.  The longer he stays, the easier it will be for him and the church to tip over the sacred cows.is

Hooray for Pastors.  Thank them for their service.  Pay them their due.  Support their leadership and their role in Da-Body.  Could it be some pastors are called or even ordained to close the doors of churches that have lived on long beyond their season?  How would you like that ministry mantle… “the pastor that kills churches that exist solely on life support.  If this is a viable role then don’t speak against God anointed - not matter how their ministry might differ from yours.

Robert:

My apologies for a bad joke.  I in no way meant I could do anything better or bigger than Northridge - in fact I also said in the same post who couldn’t appreciate what it is that God has done through them. 

I applaud them for reaching out to their community in a most relevant effective manner.  We should only do it 100th as well.  I respect totally what it is that Brad Powell and the rest of the leadership has done there.

My attempt at humor was misplaced and I apologize.

Phil

This is a great article but what I do not understand is how you can say good stuff about Northridge Church{ which is a great church} then turn around in an other article and blast Detroit World Outreach{ Michigans Second Fastest Growing Church} for buying their pastor a 3.6 million dollar house. Both these churches are reaching thousands for Christ and are seeing many lives changed so how can you write good stuff about one church and something slandering another. Brad Powell and Northridge are doing a great work for God and thank the Lord for the turn-around at their church, Ben Gibert and Detroit World Outreach are also doing a great work for God and both churches should be shown in a positive light.
Marty Banks