Give her the money back.  I know you don’t have to, but if she is that dissatisfied with the church and God, then let her get what she thinks she wants. 

I think church leaders should be careful making promises that they cannot no the result.  God may not want to bless this woman financially in American terms.  He may be wanting her to learn how to depend totally on Him.  Too often American churches use modern Western success as the measurement of Biblical fulfillment.  God has a total worldview and in most of the world, the views about blessings are distorted.

If the “church membr” wants the money back, she gave it for the wrong reason.  I guess being able to live in a free country, and having a healthy body, and family, and a Bible teaching and preaching church has no value.  Does’nt everything we have belong to God anyway?  He is allowing us to be stewards of 90% of it already.  Also the 10% factor to consider, are we not instructed in the New Testament to give of our increase, not just 10%.  The basic 10% is baby Christian stuff, we should trust God with everything and be willing to give whatever He asks us to give, including our complete selves.  How shallow we can be as humans.

Anybody who teaches tithing is teaching incorrect theology.  First off, did you know that Jesus never paid a tithe? He was exempt.  Tithing was only done by those in agriculture and livestock.  And the agriculture was only from that grown in Israel.  The Priests also tithed on their 10% they received.  Jesus was not a recognized Priest, in the Jewish system. (Don’t confuse tithing with Jesus paying the Temple Tax.)

These churches are giving out false promises based on faulty theology, and unfortuantely, most churches perpetuate this based on, primarily, a faulty understanding of Malachi.

To learn the truth about tithing and what it is, read this book:
“Should the Church Teach Tithing: A Theologian’s Conclusions About a Taboo Doctrine” by Russell Kelly

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0595159788/qid=1112808060/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-5736630-7093557?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Church leaders should be teaching “stewardship,” not tithing.  Stewardship is a much higher calling… and it affects all of our life, not just financial…

Here’s a good (short) article on tithing:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=161

...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

I believe you’ve mentioned that here before Bernie.  Thanks.

Todd

You are correct about not being able to claim a refund, but He does promise that if you give it to Him faithfully and you don’t recieve the blessing that He will rebuke the devourer and pour out a blessing on you. (Malachi 3:10-12) It isn’t all about a refund it is about faithfulness and the ability to get beyond the theogical jargon and move on to seeing the work of the Lord done and His will carried out.

Craig wrote:
“Somehow the idea sounds like an echo of Medieval indulgences: God’s blessings are for sale. The price is the tithe.”

If only it was that bad… It’s actually much worse and sinister-- now it’s give-to-get, the way to riches.  Indulgences were just to get one out of Pergatory, now they are teaching that tithing is the way to material wealth.  They are teaching that it is God’s will that we be rich, financially.

And the saddest thing… the church at large seems to be buying into it.  The Church of Laodicia (Revelation 3:14-22)…

...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

Perry said:
“This is a debate that has existed for generations. I say go to Scripture, Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.”

Exactly my point.  Go to Scripture and understand it.  The people who know the Scripture best, Seminary Professors, can instruct you correctly about how inappropriate it is to claim that Christians should tithe.  You have to understand, in context, what the tithe actually is.  You can’t fulfill the law if you don’t know what it means.  On tithe teaching, it’s amazing to note how ignorant it is from most pulpits.  It’s only gotten much worse from the “name-it-and-claim-it” folks. You need to read commentaries, but not from those of the “health & wealth” gospel ilk, who are polluting the gospel.

The ironic thing is, if churches would teach stewardship rather than tithing, they would likely get more activity (financially, etc.).  That’s God’s blessing.

Just my 2 cents. (It has nothing to do with being in a parachurch org, but rather from theology.)

...Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com

I must say that we sure do like to dodge this by saying “Law, Law, Law” and that Christ came to abolish the law. Remeber the first commandment? Did He come to get rid of that as well? Just because it is in the law doesn’t mean we are excused from its principles and teachings. Further, we need to think in terms of what the tithe is. It isn’t just about our money. It was initiated in a time of grace long before the law (see Abraham), God spelled it out in the law and in several places throughout scripture including the New Testament. This is not an offering or a gift, that tithe belongs to God, it is holy and He just wants to see if we will give it with joy. It represents a right heart toward all He gives us everyday. I love those that say “teach stewardship” and not the tithe, how can you do that??? Christ knew the law that notes that the tithe belongs to God and when He said give to Caesar the things that are his and to God the things that are His, do you think He forgot? We all tithe, W.A. Criswell notes, “some of us bring it to the storehouse, and God collects it from the rest.” Christ did come to set us free from the curse of the law, but the holiness of God did not change nor did His ultimate desire for us to recognize Him in our finances, after all they are all His anyway. Here is my challenge, do it your way and see what God does for you, or do it His way and see. We can argue till we die and the fact is that we will still die without ever coming close to paying the debt we owe Him. Let us not guilt those into giving what they cannot do joyfully, let us rather make sure in our own heart that we have brought our gifts in worship of our King. And let us make sure that they are worthy of that worship. David even said that he would not offer anything to God that cost him nothing. This whole money back thing is a gimmik to get people to do what they should be doing anyway. If the church of today will remind people that they are filthy sinners destined for eternal hell and that God secured a place in His eternal presence for them through the sacrifice of His own Son, then let them figure out how much they owe, I trust it would be plenty.  Just my take.

RLHand & Steve-

Abraham did not tithe.  He gave a tenth of the spoils from war, one time, not every year.  And he didn’t keep the other 90% for himself.  You are confusing the word “tithe.” You want people to “tithe” like Abraham did?  I don’t think so. God gave Moses the tithe command, and how to do it.  Now you want to redefine tithe to mean what you want it to mean.  Why not teach it as God did, if you want to follow it?  Did you know that part of the command of tithing was to eat part of it in celebration? Do you do that also?  Why not?

...Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com

What most of us don’t understand is that the tithe enslaves us to giving a tenth of our increase. Once we give the tithe we are then freed to keep the rest for ourselves. When in reality all that we have belongs to the Lord. Once the tithe is given, our responsibility to God according to the current improper teaching of the tithe is complete and we no longer have any further responsibility and may spend the remaining 90% as we see fit. This is wrong and let me tell you why. As a Christian, you are no longer under the curse of the law but under grace. Being a steward of God of all your earthly possessions recognizes the fact that you really don’t own anything in this life. The tithe requires ten percent where stewardship requires meeting the needs of the body. Where as the tithe given is an act of obedience to the law, stewardship calls on the giver to be responsible to ensure that the needs of the body are met regardless of the amount. This is the essence of what Christ meant when he spoke harshly to the Pharisees Mathew 23:23 and Mark 12:28-34 The law working under punishment required the letter of the law to be fulfilled, whereas stewardship working under love strives to ensure justice, mercy and faith. 

No one here is advocating not to give only to understand properly why we give.

Since the beginning of time God the Father had a plan to create man in his own image and to develop him in Christ Jesus. The Old Testament is a record of the intervention of God into the affairs of man as He sought a people after his own heart. Everything done in the Old Testament was done to prepare humanity for the coming of a better covenant in Jesus Christ our Lord. What God instituted in the law was a tool to show man his sinfulness and point to the need for a better covenant. The tithe was implemented to a people who had not known the Lord previously and it was meant to teach obedience, which has great reward. Prior to the law men did as they pleased and had not knowledge on how to worship God until Moses. Also the tithe was meant to be shared with the priesthood since they did not have a given inheritance. The principle of sowing and reaping, give and it will be given, are in fact intact in the New Testament in Christ our new covenant which is far better than the old. The best example of New Testament stewardship is found in Acts chapter 2: 42-47.

42They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

This is our highest calling in giving, which can only be attained as we abide in Christ. The tithe had its purpose in teaching obedience, but now we are called to a greater worship and fellowship in Christ Jesus our Lord. If we are going to take time to teach about giving, let us teach to the higher standard of giving as given in the example found in Acts chapter 2.

The problem is that the majority of Christians have not experienced a personal and intimate Christ as those described in Acts chapter 2. This is where our focus should be, teaching our church members how to enter into the presence of God and how to continually abide in Christ, which is the source of every inspiration to do and sacrifice for God. 

Daniel

Daniel, I agree and as I mentioned in both previous responses, it all starts with a proper view of God and what He has done for us. Believe me, I would much rather see a heart that is grateful and gives out of abundance without some % attached to it. Note: The tithe was instituted before the law on more than one occasion. If the law was the standard to show us how sinful we are and how far from God’s standard of holiness we are, and the tithe was part of that law, then what do we learn from it? We recongnize the moral absolutes of the law, why do we dismiss the financial ones? Most cannot even meet that simple standard of a tithe. I don’t really care what you call it, tithe, stewardship, spirit led giving, the fact still remains that most fall far short of God’s standard. Ricky, the passage in Acts did not say that they should stay away from idols themselves, just meat offered to them, so is idol worship ok? In fact that passage does not talk about giving at all or witnessing or meeting the needs of the poor or visiting the fatherless or widows. So we are to stay away from meat offered to idols, blood, and things strangled (there goes chicken), and fornication and that’s it. You said, “I fully believe and teach that the tithe is an OT command that has NO PLACE in the New Testament church.” Show me that in scripture, sounds like a “thus saith the Lord” to me. The tithe did not die on the cross, my punishment for sin did. I do agree that the law was completed on the cross in that we no longer have to worry if we have met every item and fulfilled every requirement. I don’t think we should burden people with a demand for them to tithe, they should give out of a willing heart and a joyful spirit. So how much does God require? nothing! It has all been taken care of. How much should we give? everything. It is the least we can do. Is the tithe a good place to start? Why not? Want to exceed the standards given in the law? By all means do so, it doesn’t mean that you are more spiritual than someone else who has only gotten to the tithing stage of obedience. The law is not my master, Jesus is. I don’t have to tithe, but I should, I should and then some. I am not a legalist, you can get to heaven without fulfilling any commandment except believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but get that one right and get it good, and the rest won’t be such a problem. Even the tithe, stewardship, spirit led giving part. Malachi, after mentioning that Christ was the messenger of the covenant, said to bring the tithes into the storehouse to provide support for the house of God, and prove Him and see if by doing that He would not open the windows of heaven and poor out a blessing that cannot be contained. I will take His Word to be true and continue to tithe, and give beyond as is within my power. God has yet to fail me, and I don’t expect Him to.

In the 24 posts above this one I haven’t read anything about the words ‘tithe’ and ‘offering’.  I’ve heard a lot about whether we should “give” a tithe.

1.  Scripture teaches us to BRING the tithe into the storehouse… It’s not about “Giving”.... it’s about “Bringing”. 

2.  Tithe is separate from the word offering.  Tithe is the 10% and first-fruits.  The offering is what we BRING or GIVE above and beyond.  Some on this thread have argued that giving a tithe takes away from the concept of good stewardship and caring for those in need.  They play the card of “I don’t want to tithe because it restricts me to just 10%.  That is a bogus argument and the people who argue it know it.  It sounds good but it’s not acted out.

Lets go back to Malachi because some of us forget to mention verse 6.  We pick up conveniently at vs 7.  I wonder why?

Ohh… there it is… he first sentence.  “I the LORD do not change.”

6 “I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. 7 Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD Almighty.
“But you ask, ‘How are we to return?’ 8 “Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
“But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’"In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse-the whole nation of you-because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit,” says the LORD Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the LORD Almighty. 13 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the LORD ."Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ 14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty? 15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’ “ 16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name.17 “They will be mine,” says the LORD Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. [a] I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

It is apparent to me that we should understand the word tithe and the word offering before we argue whether we are to continue to tithe. We also have to remember that the “church” is not an organization.  The “chruch” is in fact the gathering of God’s children.  “The Body” remember?  The way God blesses his Church is by blessing it’s people.  The concept is simple.  God blesses, we obey and we act as Jesus’ hands and feet on this earth (even with… no… especially with our finances).