I just hope for the philistines’ sake that David killed them before he circumcized them.  Ouch!  You’re right though Todd, the mental picture of David unloading his 200 newly acquired foreskins is priceless.

FYI, The VCY Radio Network website has a brochure on the “Purpose Driven Movement”.  In the brochure they advocate dissention.  Let me qoute directly,

“What You Can Do? If your church is in the initial stages of change (music or the first 40–day program), your church could be saved by talking other church members, and with activist intervention by 10–20 percent of the membership.”

There is no mention on going to the leadership first.  I thought it was just us liberals who didn’t use the Bible???

Brad,

Yes… I saw that yesterday.  (That’s a whole other post for a whole other day!)

They actually advocate ‘activist intervention by 10–20 percent of the membership’.

Todd

With all the issues that desparatrely need our attention in this culture to get our shorts in wad, yes shorts in wad over what Chuck Swindoll has said is a perfect example of why so much of the church has nothing to say to dying world.

I do not know the constituency that VCY plays to but I guarantee you they are small and irrelevant. If that is waht they have to bringto the table, well let them listen but beyond that let them be. I was going to say broom them, but that is not gracious.

Was VCY involved in the Contempory English Version (CEV) translation of the Bible?

Because instead of foreskins, the CEV says “All you have to do is to bring back proof that you have killed a hundred Philistines!” Sounds like a change they would have made.

I would call all of our attention to the Bible - Which is God’s Word - and judge what VCY did against it and not our personal opinions.

1. There is a verse that states WIDE is the path that leads to destruction. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation and FEWthere be that find it. I have learned that to be Christian is to often be in the minority. We should all consider that verse.

2. It is one thing to let slip a bad word. It is quite another to intentionally use one and think it is funny or cute. I personally do not feel the need to swear or use slang to make a point. All I need is a good point. I do not feel the need to be personnaly relevant when teaching Biblical matters. All I need to do is use God’s Word.

3. There is another verse in the Bible that talks about how a little leaven..... Well a LITTLE of any bad thing can be too much. Consider 1 ounce of dog feces in a batch of brownies… Would YOU eat it?

4. I see no example in the Bible of either Jesus or any apostle stuppng to the level of using crude language to get a point across. If they did not, should we?

5. The Bible teaches that we are to die to self that Jesus may live though us. WHen a person like Mr Swindoll has to be in the world to be reelvant (by using innapropriate language) he ignores the Biblical admonishion that we are to be in the world but not OF it.

Perhaps if people actually read the Bible and followed it, there would be less need to do another thing that the Bible commands - to reprove and rebuke each other when we fall.

VCY FOLLOWED Matthew 18 with Mr Swindoll in trying to get him to recognize his fault. Everyone should READ Matthew 18 and see what we are commanded to do when our brother refuses to repent.

At the end of the day. we either obey God’s Word or we don’t. People here nned to stop being immature Christians and hold up what people say to the light of the Word and stop shooting the messenger when they don’t like what the Word says.

Nathan,

I am not interested what Slice, you or I consider to be crude. The final authority on the matter should be the Bible.

1. Did VCY follow Matthew 18? I think they did

2. What does the Bible say abuot crude language? Consider Ephesians 4:29 whish states, “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” Philippians 1:27 states, “Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ;”. And, in Titus 2:7-8 it states, “In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech that cannot be condemned ; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.”

Carl, God bless you.  You clearly care about the reputation of the ministers of God’s Word, and you clearly care about holiness and discipleship--all crucial matters for the follower of our Lord.
I do have a couple questions for you though.

1. You quote Ephesians 4:29 which says we should let “no corrupt communication” come out of our mouths.  Amen!  But… ... who defines corrupt communication?  Haven’t many brother and sisters in Christ here tried to make the point that ‘corrupt communication’ is always relative to the hearer?  This is not relativism but merely linguistics 101.  Given Jesus’ and Paul’s primary concerns in the Scriptures, I don’t think they had specific words in mind when they talked about watching our tongues (cf. James), as if words had any kind of intrinsic ‘wrongness’ to them.  Rather, it’s a question of what the words do.  Are the words building up?  Or are they tearing down?  Are we blessing others, or are we calling them ‘fools’ with our words or our thoughts (which Jesus identified with a spirit of murder)?

2. Why do you quote from the KJV?  It’s a beautiful, but very faulty translation.  I recommend the NRSV, or the ESV.

This whole buzz about Chuck Swindoll is really quite unfortunate.  God is strong in our weaknesses, and so we should all pray that God uses Swindoll in spite of whatever faults he mights have.  And before we get too enamored with picking them out for him, we should work on those logs sticking out of our own sockets.
Thank you for caring about Truth and God’s Word.  Only these matter supremely.
Cheers,
-Daniel-

Daniel,

Good questions! I will try to answer.

I went to the dictionary for this so I would not put any personal slant to the definition of the word corrupt. I found this -
1: lacking in integrity; “humanity they knew to be
corrupt...from the day of Adam’s creation”; “a corrupt
and incompetent city government” [ant: incorrupt]
2: not straight; dishonest or immoral or evasive [syn: crooked]
[ant: straight]
3: containing errors or alterations; “a corrupt text”; “spoke a
corrupted version of the language” [syn: corrupted]
4: touched by rot or decay; “tainted bacon”; “`corrupt’ is
archaic” [syn: tainted]
v 1: corrupt morally or by intemperance or sensuality; “debauch
the young people with wine and women” [syn: pervert, demoralize,
demoralise, debauch, debase, profane, vitiate,
deprave, misdirect]
2: alter from the original [syn: spoil]
3: make illegal payments to in exchange for favors or
influence; “This judge can be bought” [syn: bribe, buy]
4: place under suspicion or cast doubt upon; “sully someone’s
reputation” [syn: defile, sully, taint, cloud]

I use the King James for one simple reason. Its source is from the Textus Receptus which was a direct translation from the original Greek. I don’t not think the NRSV or the ESV are direct translations.

Try this test between the KJV and the other versions.....

Using the NRSV or the ESV , answer the following questions quiz.

Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the text).

Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. “Love your enemies,__________ them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you.”

According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of demon?

According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?

According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate’s first name?

In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.

In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to: ____________

According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?

According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?

In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?

In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?

In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?

According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?

In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?

John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?

What happened each year as told in John 5:4?

In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?

In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?

What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?

Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.

Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain’s name? What did the chief captain command?

Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.

First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?

In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?

Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?

Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, “I am the A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:”

Great post, Todd!

The Bible is a very “earthy” book.  There is no doubt about it.  And Jesus was blunt and offensive...I remember him talking about dogs returning to their vomit.

I think that the slice ought to be more careful about what they imply too.  The Lion King is not a R rated movie.  How do you make the jump from Swindoll talking about the Lion King to promoting R rated movies?  I know...it is a slippery slope, right?

Keep up the great work, Todd!

Carl,
You make a good point.  There is certainly a biblical mandate to not be caught talking about sin in a flippant way.

However, your position changed a little in your last post.  At first you were saying that it’s not right to be “crude” in order to prove a point.  I showed you that Paul did it, and as Jeff just said, Jesus did it too.  You then changed to “it shouldn’t be told as a joke”.  That’s all well and good, but what if the joke is meant to prove a point?  Is it ok then?

Also, you said that dung is ok to say, but the s-word isn’t.  OK, why?  And what about “crap”?  Is that ok to say?  Poop?  Is referring to a man’s penis, implying that it should be cut off, a crude thing to say?

My point is, I keep hearing (not just from you) that the Bible clearly tells us that this is a sin.  Yet when asked where the Bible makes this clear, I don’t hear very much.  And the little I do hear could easily be used to condemn the Bible’s own words!

Am I missing something?

This is the point that I believe others have been trying to make. I have not heard the first person say that crude, foul, profane language is good, right, or positive. What I have read many say here is that the Bible does not spell out that which is crude.

Carl said:
“In the converstaion at hand, I would say that Swindoll was crude as in #2 above.”

That statement is opinion. You, Carl, say that it was crude. You have the right and authority to speak for yourself, and you have done so.

That which I find crude, you might not. That which offends you might not offend me. Unfortunately, this is not one of those issues which is as clear-cut as some might like for it to be.