Sarandon makes some good points, ones with which I’m afraid I agree.  And . . .  I think her thoughts are representative of many in our mission field, and so they are instructive for me.

Wendi

Leonard,

I think I see where Wendi is coming from. I know that you were “not at all impressed” and that putting Jesus and Buddha on the same level is not accurate, but I wonder if you are having trouble seeing those statements from an un-churched perspective.

She tries to put them on the same level, but only talks about Jesus. That tells me something about the weight He truly carries with her.

The valid point that I think she made, and I am guessing Wendi agrees with, is that ..."when religion becomes institutionalized, all the guys that started it that were so brilliant …their words get used to exclude other people.”

I believe that she has made a fairly accurate observation. This is quite often the case in many churches.

just my thoughts…

E

Another interesting quote:  “Jesus was not afraid.” I think she’s onto something there—many Christians who are caught shouting ugly things or otherwise drawing tight circles to exclude people who are different, are operating out of fear...as were the Pharisees, one could argue.  How interesting that she picked up on that fear.
--S

About the robbery: FBC Dallas is showing real grace and mercy from what we’ve read in news stories and seen on local TV. Now that is something to be thankful for!

"I believe in the divinity of every human being.”

Uh… why believe this? There is no good reason except picking and choosing what you want to be true.

Sorry, couldn’t get past it.

Easier to believe in the depravity of every human being based on the evidence… And that seems to jive with scripture, too!

Just to stir the pot a little here… If Adam and Eve are created in the image of God, as representatives of God to the world, how are humans not ‘divine’?
Are we gods? No. Do we bear the fingerprints of divinity and do we represent divinity? Yes. Saved and lost alike are children of God.
Face it, you just don’t like the fact that she said ‘humans are divine’ instead of ‘humans bear the imago dei‘. And yet the two are very proximate… The only way what Sarandon said (on this particular point) is false is if divinity implies perfection--but clearly this is not what she means.
So let’s give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s no Christian to be sure, but she may have an ‘idol to an unknown God’ that provides an entry point for the Spirit, if you know what I mean…

Cheers,
-Daniel-

If I were sitting with Sarandon in Starbucks and chatting over a cup of coffee, and she’d said only the things quoted in this short article, I might respond this way:

“You make a very good point Susan.  The work and legacy of many brilliant leaders has gotten abused and exclusive once it became institutionalized.  Christian history and even pre-history proves your point, as does the history of many other religions. And I understand how you see Jesus as an activist.  When He entered history, he really shook up the religious institutions that had been created His own people.  In fact, I feel sure that if he arrived today as he did 2000 years ago (as a human being), He’d again go around shaking up much of our Christian establishment and institutions.

I notice another thing in your comment that personally, I think you are observing without fully understanding.  You said that you believe in the divinity of all humanity.  I believe that we were created by God, and that He created us in his own image.  I sure don’t understand all that means, but I believe that somehow, imbedded into every human being are the fingerprints of God Himself.  I disagree with you that we are divine ourselves, but I sure think that we have the ability to reflect the divine, and some people reflect God’s image better than others, regardless of their religious (or non-religious) beliefs.”

Perhaps I’m stretching here, but I think that Paul was instructed by the Greeks at the Areopagus.  He could have said, “You guys are typical pagans, you just don’t get it.  Your perspective certainly doesn’t surprise us, coming from Athens (insert Hollywood with a sarcastic tone of voice).  You guys have a twisted view of reality and know nothing about the real God (like we do).” Instead, after reasoning with them for several days, letting them “instruct” him, he said (Hammond paraphrase), “Hey, I’ve noticed something I really admire about you guys.  You are quite spiritual and have recognized that all your gods are not enough, because you identified an unknown God.  You’ve tried to make an image of him, but although He can’t be formed out of bricks and clay, He can be known.  Wanna know more?”

Leonard, I’m instructed by Susan’s comments in that way.  Her comments help me exegete this culture.  And when she tries to pick a fight with me (to the extent that I’m a conservative . . . or whatever), I’ll refuse to get defensive and make her into my enemy.  I’ll keep thinking and praying about how to posture myself and represent my faith in a way that opens (instead of closing) conversational doors.  The Susan Sarandon’s of the world help me think about this.

Does that explain my comment better?

Wendi

My community is made up of the Susan Sarradon’s, lots of movie and rock stars, politicians, etc.

She sounds like everyone of them.  Most of them tried church at one time or the other and were burned.  So, when she talks about church leaders, she probably does from experience.

And the “divine in everybody” gobbledee gook, means that she believes, as I hear almost daily “God is in everyone.  We just need to encourage the good.”

I’ve found that this type of person, doesn’t use intellectual reasoning.  You could talk all you want about those points to her but she would most likely not budge an inch.

What does work is community and real Christian living in action.  They are stunned.  They are nonplussed.  And they don’t know what to do with it.  Because it goes against everything they’ve seen or assumed and concluded about Christians.

We had a woman come and sing with us for Thanksgiving.  (We put an ad in our local paper, looking for singers, who wanted to sing gospel music.)

She is exactly where this woman is.  After rehearsal she began hanging out with us and is now regularly coming to church and bringing her live in boyfriend.  Her comment was “I’ve been to every church in this valley.  I just don’t know where to put this church.  I had to come back and see more.”

She has publicly professed all this new age crud.  But she has to see more.  And she wants to experience it.

I think that is what we as churches need to be reaching for.
Logic and Apologetics are good, but most don’t respond to them in this age of relative thinking.

Wow, some good stuff going on here.  Let me comment on the “divine” in all of us.  My understanding is that when man sinned, we forfeited our “divine” position.  When Adam & Eve were created, their spirits ruled over their souls.  In other words, in the absence of sin, their emotions, will, mind and bodies were completely controlled by their spirit which was in continual communion with the Father.  But when they sinned, things became drastically out-of-sync.  Now the soul reigns in all of us.  As Christians, we are continually caught in that tension. Our emotions, will and mind, all stained by sin, continually tries to exert control over our spirits.  This was not what God intended for us.  I agree with you, Wendy, that there are times when our lives truly glorify God and reflect Christ, all by the grace of God.  In those moments we may come a little closer to the “divine.” But we must never forget that sin has done a dangerous work in our lives.  And the only thing “divine” in our life now is Jesus Christ Himself.

Debbie –

Did human beings ever have a divine “position?” I’m not sure that I understand what you mean by a divine position.  And I guess the theology works that in an unfallen state, Adam & Eve’s spirit, in communion with God, ruled their soul.  Guess it depends on one’s understanding of soul.

My point is that even unregenerate people are capable of good, in fact very much good.  (Am I giving away my distaste for the idea of total depravity – as some profess it?) What do we do about someone like Gandhi or Oskar Schildler or any of the people we know in our own lives who are tremendously selfless and giving, and spend themselves for others, but do not love Jesus?  My sister-in-law is Buddhist.  My own selfless sacrifice, in attitude and actual giving of time and resources, pales in comparison to hers.  I understand that she’s sinful and fallen in nature, just like me.  But I also believe that its God’s fingerprints, the image of the divine if you will, that enables her to do good.  In fact, because we’re all fallen and selfish, what could possibly compel a selfish and fallen person to do good and make the world He created better except God Himself planting in us the seed of desire to do so?

I realize that Susan Sarandon doesn’t understand it this way, but I think her comment gives evidence that she has experienced something (good in people) which she doesn’t really understand, and she’s doing her best to make sense of it. 

Wendi

Sorry, Debbie, we were never divine. We were never God.  We were never the creator. We had a sinless position, but not for long… That’s different from saying we had a “divine” position.