Sounds fair, not to have public ceremonies in a church.  Would you like it if the church was a Mormon church or Jehovah Witness’ church or a mosque?  We need to play fair-- if it’s ok for us, it’s ok for them too.

,,,Bernie
http://freegoodnews.blogspot.com

Bernie,

Good point… but I don’t think it would bother me to have a graduation service in a mosque or temple or LDS building.  It’s a secular gathering in a building. 

Now if it were to be some type of multi-faith ‘spiritual-type’ event, then I’d have a problem on different grounds, but probably not for this.

Todd

“Would it bother you if were held at an Athiest’s meeting place-- would you want to expose your friends and family to opposite (and strong) beliefs?”

I don’t know that athiests really have a meeting place, but if it was for a secular graduation cermony, then I’d be ok with it.  Hopefully my family and friends would realize that we were there for a graduation and not for a religious education.

My main point is that we are too policically correct.  We keep bending further and further to accomodate, and I think it’s getting rather silly.

Todd

You know what, Mr. Lipoff?  I don’t feel comfortable being in a public school. Armed guards and metal detectors notwithstanding.  Sheesh…

Todd, when you click on all these on the left column, they all say they are June 8:

The Clown Eucharist
Outreach at Gay Pride Day
Violating Someone’s ‘Religious Sensibilities’
The Blogging Bozo

Still got issues…

...Bernie

BeHim:

“Seems pretty easy these days to violate someone’s religious sensibilities, doesn’t it?”

Yep.  (Especially on Todd’s blog! )

Hi Everyone,

As I was reading all these posting, I think that many of you were misinformed. First of all, I did this not at all for the fame and publicity. Actually this all happened over a month ago and between then and now, I was deciding whether I should let the public know about it or not because of the obvious ramifications of the situation.

Also, I see the point that the church is just being used as a facility and none of it religous aspects are being put upon the graduates; however, there were two other possible facitilies. One was the football field, which all other local high schools use, and the UCI Bren Center, which is hosting it now.

It doesnt matter what I feel about the situation. It doesnt matter whether Im Jewish, Christian, or Athiest. The Frist Amendment protects the rights of citizens and this situation bordered on infringing on the right of the graduates.

Additionally, the Supreme Court has ruled that high school graduation is not voluntary because it is “one of life’s most significant occasions.” So, I shouldnt have to decide whether Im going or not based on the religiousity of the venue. There is a clear seperation of church and state, and if I have to make that decision in a public school, then I really doubt that I was out of line.

Finally, if you were wondering, after talking to many students at my school (and teachers), many agree with me and are happy that I stood up for something that they didnt have the courage to do.

Marc Lipoff

Thanks for chiming in Marc at the MMI Blog over the weekend.  You sound like an intelligent young man.

The thing that made me post this in the first place is that it just seems that people’s sensitivities (on both sides of the issue) are just a little short-sighted I think.

My big idea was that this was just the use of a building for a graduation; not an attempt by the school or the church involved to indoctrinate anyone.  As I’ve said above, I really wouldn’t have been concerned if this public school event was held in an athiest’s meeting place or a temple or a mosque for that matter.  Only because there was no religious or spiritual purpose or agenda behind the meeting.  I guess I just don’t see what the big deal is in having to go into a church building for a graduation.  In that way, it seems that stories like this make a big deal out of nothing.  And I hope you can see how people can feel (even wrongly) that this is something that people do for fame or publicity.  To make this a constitutional issue seems a little overboard to me… even if there were other non-religious venues available.

Thanks again for being straightforward and posting here.  I think you’re a stand-up guy.  If you’d like to continue the discussion here, please feel free.  I enjoy a good discussion (even debate!) as long as everyone keeps it friendly and civil.  It helps me to understand where you’re coming from; and hopefully you’ll see some new perspectives as well. 

Todd Rhoades
MMI Blog Moderator

This decision was made 100% on my own. My parents supported me in my decision, but they never urged me to speak up.

Marc

Essentially, I made the dedision to not attend graduation on my own. My family was fine with that although they recommended that I do something other than just not go.

I am Jewish and I am quite active in a local youth group. What I learned while apart of it was probably the biggest factor in the decision. After telling the director that I wasnt going to go to my graduation, she recommended that I call the ADL.

Then, the ADL took over, which was really easy because they took care of everything and couldnt disclose my name (for privacy reasons). But when the time came to deicde whether or not to pursue a law suit, then I had to make the big choice. I thought that I wouldnt rreally respect myself after it was over had I not pursued the law suit. I would have been backing down from a fight only because I was afraid of what my peers would say.

Some people were telling me how many times my name came up on google, so I decided to google for my name, which is the way I found this site.

-Marc

Yes, the director of the youth group did recommend the ADL to me, but I did know some people that worked there before all of this.

I cant pursue the law suit now because there is nothing to sue over now. The school voluntarily changed graduation from the church to the UCI Bren Center after receiving word that I was planning to sue them. Also, I think that some people misunderstand what the law suit would mean. Essentailly, I would have filed for an injunction to have it moved. The school district would have not been responsible for any direct costs (though lawyers and such would cost some money). I do somewhat wish that there was a law suit so that this gray area of the law would have been resolved for future graduation is this country.

Next year I am attending Berkeley and am currently going to major in Civil Engineering (no, not Politcal Science). I do however, plan to take part in the political aspect of the university. 

My family goes to a Reform temple, but I would consider myself more conservative. I guess my Judaism did play a part in the decision, but I think it was more because I am a man of principle. If you arent Jewish, then I cant really explain it that well, but Jews tend to stick together and stand up for what they believe. Maybe it is because of the Holocaust and continuing anti-Semitism in the world.

Marc, I just want to say that I greatly appreciate the calm and rational reasoning you are presenting.  Far too often, people on all sides of issues such as this turn it into a big emotional thing, and I don’t sense that from you at all.

I wish you all the best at Berkeley and in your future.