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What do YOU think is the biggest problem in American Christianity Today?
Orginally published on Monday, April 06, 2009 at 6:18 AM
by Todd Rhoades
Take a look at this for a couple of ideas. Then I'd love to hear your own. Do you agree or disagree?
Personally, I do see his point. However, I would differ with who he would say is the root of the problem, because I think he has communicated over the years that it’s pretty much everyone but him. 
What do you think? Is MacArthur right on this one, or dead wrong?
Todd
This post has been viewed 931 times so far.
There are 48 Comments:
Hi... I'm Todd Rhoades. I'm a Christ-follower, husband, father and I love to connect leaders with other leaders. Hopefully you'll find something here at MMI you like and will return often. If you want, you can find out more about me or follow my every step on Twitter.
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Monday, April 06, 2009 at 6:56 AM
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Monday, April 06, 2009 at 7:34 AM
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Post Your Comments:Both of them are correct.
I would have loved to hear the moderator say, “Can you name three people you have met that ‘call themselves Christians but don’t know enough theology to be saved’”?
The church has lost to moralistic therapeutic deism as described in Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Eyes of American Teenagers by Christian Smith with Melinda Lundquist Denton.
This has happened because we have failed to communicate what the cross is all about.
I don’t think I would agree with MacArthur. I do agree that it is a problem, but is it the greatest threat to the church today? We have to be careful to not present the gospel in such a way that it is only for the intellectuals and religious experts. I don’t think we have to choose between doctrine and love - let’s teach and show both.
I sort of agree...However, I would say the root of it all is a lack of love. Meaning, a lack of love for God and our neighbor. Let me explain. I believe it is a lack of love for God because when Scripture is unpacked and delved deeper into, the response is somewhate Phariseeical (is that a word?). We honor God with our words, but our hearts want nothing to do with Him. That is where I agree with the consumeristic church goer. They just go somwhere else when any substance is delivered because it messes with their lifestyle.
On the flip side, it is a lack of love for our neighbor in the ministerial side. Ministers have bought into the notion that success is determined by how many you have in your pews during services. My question is this...What does it matter how many are in your pews if there is no change when they are out of the pews? It is almost like a relationship with God has become like a lucky rabbit’s foot in your pocket. Let me rub the rabbit’s foot and with luck on my side, I will make Heaven. That is the attitude I am seeing.
In the same vein, the Christians who have been faithful in their relationship to God in the past, have now become apathetic and unwilling to serve their neighbor.
It is my opinion that we need to get back to our first love…
Good answers preceded my comment. With Palm Sunday immediately behind us and Jesus about to be crucified and raised from the dead within the next week (our celebrating only in this comment, I realize this happened 2000 years ago) ,my questions are ???????
Since HE said we must BELIEVE in HIM to be SAVED,
WAS THERE A FORMAL OPPORTUNITY PRESENTED IN YOUR CHURCH YESTERDAY?
WERE THOSE HEARTS BEING TUGGED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVEN AN OPEN INVITATION TO FOLLOW CHRIST?
I am thinking closer to John M. Church is more social than scriptural. “Warm and fuzzy” is the msg rather than repentance.
I sort of agree with John (a rare event for me) but this is where I disagree. Is what he is describing any different than it has always been?
Let me illustrate. My grandparents were saved, and God fearing people who faithfully served and attended two, dyanamic Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma City in their lifetime. In 1985, they discovered the world of personal Bible study, not devotion but actual study, and found commentaries, Bible dictionaries and all kinds of books and resources. They were angry that for all of their life, the church, and the pastors, never told them that they could do such a thing. There was always an attitude that only the pastor could know and study theology, Greek, etc and that he would impart this knowledge in a 30 minute, expository sermon on Sunday. Somehow that was supposed to bring people to deep knowledge of Jesus?!?! Even the Sunday School teacher materials (since they were both SS teachers) was “dumbed” down and not deep. So when exactly was the body of Christ, that is not in the ministry, truly knowledgeable about theology and doctrine in modern history?
My Grandparents died in 2001 and 2004 and I would argue, that through personal study, they knew as much as I know having graduated with a seminary degree.
MacArthur’s statement makes me nauseous, “People don’t know enough about the Gospel to be saved.” We need to remember the words of Jesus, “whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all.” He needs to get back to the simplicity and clarity of the Gospel. According to Johnny Mac’s understanding about what it takes to be saved, the criminal on the cross would not have been able to see Jesus in paradise. To me, this sort of mentality is why so many people want nothing to do with Christ. This message is a shame, and someone with such “elite” understanding should know better.
I have a hard time listening without wondering which “faces of Christianity” he has a problem with. Perhaps it is some kind of post-modern hermeneutic of suspicion, but it seems like this is his particular ax to grind. I don’t necessarily disagree with his point, but I would have a hard time saying that someone thinks they are a Christian but doesn’t know enough to be saved. I also think it is a symptom of a bigger problem that the other guy (sorry don’t know his name) hit on more clearly. I think there is a huge difference between being a “Christian” and being a disciple of Jesus. I’m not sure Jesus ever called people to be “Christian” he called them to follow Him, to be disciples. American Christianity has been influenced to a large degree by what Walter Brueggamann calls “technological, therapeutic, consumer, militarism”. That dominant script, played out in the lives of conservatives and liberals alike has led us far away from the way of Jesus.
Posted by Carl Thomas
Monday, April 06, 2009 at 7:34 AM
I would have loved to hear the moderator say, “Can you name three people you have met that ‘call themselves Christians but don’t know enough theology to be saved’”?
-----Carl, I believe I know where you are coming from when you ask the question. However, I think I understand what Mc. meant, because in fact, I can go to any neighborhood in my community and ask the one who answers my knock on the door if they are a Christian, and many will say “yes.” I then ask them how and why are you a Christian--and I will be looking into a blank stare.
fishon
Much of the problem is that we want to talk about the problem rahter than do somehting about the problem.
I agree 100% with John MacArthur. Those who disagree with him need to realize that you are looking at a 3 min clip and judging his entire ministry on that. How biblical is that?
I agree with John, because the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. (Rom 1:16) how often do you hear sermons about the cost of sin? when I read God’s word I see it all over the place. How about what it means to be holy? Instead you hear about how God want’s you to have your best life now. Isn’t our best life in heaven? You hear how God wants us to be rich on earth, God says store it in heaven. (Matt 6:20) we hear don’t judge each other, God says judge those in the church, but do it with love.(I Cor 5:12)
these are truths rarely teached from the pulpit.
These comments about MacArthur saying its all about being being intellectual, are again judging the mans ministry on a 3 min clip.
Growing in knowledge was Paul’s prayer for the church Collosse (Col 1:9-14)
Growing in knowledge is commanded in 2 Pet 3:18
The greatest threat indeed to the Church in America is a watered down Gospel, which is no gospel at all. We as pastors (that’s me) and lay people need to wake up to the fact that we will be judged for how we handle the Word of Truth. (especially pastors)
Let’s not debate about what MacArthur says. Rather we should be concerned about what does God say in His Word and are we sharing the fullness of the Gospel to a lost and dying world?
Michael and Cole:
(Grouping you since both of you made almost the same point.)
“MacArthur’s statement makes me nauseous, “People don’t know enough about the Gospel to be saved.” “
If you interview the average church-goer in America, you will find almost a dozen different answers on how someone becomes a Christian and gets saved. Some of the more popular ones I have encountered are:
-Say a prayer.
-Ask Jesus into your heart.
-Accept Jesus.
-Believe in Jesus.
-Do good things.
-Tell Jesus you’re sorry.
-Get baptized.
-Take communion.
-Walk down the aisle.
-Make a decision.
-Sign a card.
Yet none of these are the true, Biblical answer. The modern self-described Christian in America is scarce to answer, “In response to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross where He atoned for my sins, I repented and put my faith in Him.” The word, “repentance,” is very low in frequency for talking about salvation, and many Christians can’t explain at all why someone should become a Christian.
So, yes, I agree with MacArthur wholeheartedly and wish that more people would heed his warnings and do what the Bible commands us to do.
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CS
I am 100% in agreement with MacArthur on this one.
Not sure why Cole feels the need to denegrate Dr. MacArthur with name changes like Johnny Mac, etc. But, I would say that spirit isn’t much of a Christian response to a person like John who has dedicated his life to pastoring people and studying the Word of God. I guess some people don’t understand what the respect means. Disagree if you must, but why make it a personal attack? Sad.
Dr. MacArthur isn’t propigating anything outside of biblical standards. The bible teaches than people come to Christ as a result of hearing the “good news”, and that is the salvation message of Christ’s atonement for our sins. We have churches today who teach none of this.......which frankly makes them a country club, not a church. The power of the Word is how people are drawn to Christ, the moving of the Holy Spirit through the Word is how He has chosen to seek and save individuals. All Dr. MacArthur is stating is that the church in America has turned away from the call to teach and preach and is replacing it with philosophy, entertainment and life coaching sessions.
One of my close friends had lunch with a new start up pastor of a large church’s plant in our area. He asked the young man, who would stand in front of a couple of thousand people in the new plant from this mega church, what non-negotiable he was going to teach this new church. The man couldn’t define them for him......he had alot of “old church” experiences he was intending to turn away from, but nothing of substance he could say he was turning TO. How sad.....yet, this is more common than I would like to think. I’m with Dr. John , and would like to see some seminarians rightly divide the Word in a good communicative manner that have someone leading who can’t find his own way.
To Eric,
I don’t base my opinion of JM on this clip alone. I used to listen to the guy every Sunday morning on the radio and loved his teaching, but the past however-many years, he has, in my opinion, gone off the deep end. I’m sick to death of his eagerness to condemn anyone who has a different approach to ministry, not a different theology, but a different style. To me, he has little credibility left.
CS: “Believe in Jesus” is not a biblical answer? Someone better tell Jesus! He pushed the idea numerous times! Oh, and while you’re at it, better tell John, Paul and Peter too, because evidently, they’re confused as well.
Thanks for my Monday Morning Chuckle!
Dave
Dave:
“CS: “Believe in Jesus” is not a biblical answer? Someone better tell Jesus! He pushed the idea numerous times! Oh, and while you’re at it, better tell John, Paul and Peter too, because evidently, they’re confused as well.”
Not to sound too Clintonian, but it all depends in your understanding of, “believe.” For example, an atheist believes that Jesus was a historical figure. Is that enough for salvation? Obviously, no. Or a Mormon believes in his, “Jesus Christ,” as well, who is the spirit brother of the devil. Is that enough for salvation? No. Even the Bible says in James that the demons believe and tremble. But they obviously cannot be saved, either, even though they, “believe.”
So, when we have Romans 10:9 thrown around so casually, without the complete understanding of what, “believe,” means, it can set up false conversions. To make it personal, my dad believes in Jesus Christ, but then proceeds to live as an unsaved heathen, showing no sign of conversion. Aside from saying that he believes in God, there is no demonstration of his faith, since he continues living a lifestyle of sin, which makes me greatly worry for him.
If we want to use the word, “believe,” that’s fine. But qualify it with the repentance and faith that such a belief requires, in submitting ourselves to our Lord. Don’t just make it a superficial belief and ignore all of the calls for repentance and faith in the Bible. That leads to false converts pretty quickly.
And this also goes to prove MacArthur’s point all the more.
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CS
CS, ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS TO GET SAVED IS BECAUSE, I WONT BURN FOR EVER AND EVER IN HELL WITH NO END TO IT.I WANT BE TORTURED BY DEMONS FOREVER, AT LEAST THATS A GOOD START,
I think it’s kinda funny that he points out the need for expository preaching, even though there is not one example of such preaching in all of Scripture, including Jesus, nor is there any specific teaching in Scripture commanding anyone to preach that way…
BTW, I’m not AGAINST that kind of preaching - I do it myself most of the time. It’s just that there is no Scriptural authority or example of it, and therefore, cannot be held up as the only “right” way to preach.
Again, to clarify on this one as well. I have nothing against John MacArthur. I hope he continues the work he feels God has called him to.
I also hope that all the people he thinks don’t do it right continue to do the work that they feel God has called them to.
But, I admit… that just seems too logical.
Todd
The greatest threat to Christianity?
How about looking into every other church but our own to find out what they are doing wrong?
What I remember from James is that, we are to look at ourselves in the mirror, not our neighbor?
Just a thought.
I thought Todd’s comment was precise – Big Mac has spent the last 20 years or so castigating just about anybody who wasn’t him. I think he broad brushes those churches whose style he doesn’t like by assuming they are weak on Bible. I listen to, watch, and read a lot of the guys in his cross hairs, and I just don’t find it to be true.
Brian L:
“I think it’s kinda funny that he points out the need for expository preaching, even though there is not one example of such preaching in all of Scripture, including Jesus, nor is there any specific teaching in Scripture commanding anyone to preach that way…”
Jesus opening the scroll of Isaiah comes to mind. He read the verses, only those verses, and then said, “Today this has been fulfilled.” Pretty expository if you ask me. =)
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CS
The biggest threat to Christianity is CHURCHIANITY and the veritable industry it has spawned. Attractional, Seeker friendly decisionism much like Burger King… “Have it your way” and it’s various spin-offs. Serving consumers, heck I know of one church that has refered to people as consumers, instead of the work of making disciples.
I know of people who stand in pulpits, excuse me on stages, and openly mock the church of their youth… then turn around and get ruffled when someone like John MacArthur shines the revealing beacon on their church model.
CS -
Jesus also ate with tax collectors and sinners, and preached from a boat. But I don’t hear anyone saying that you need to preach in a boat filled with food and prostitutes to be biblical.
Just sayin…
(Not that there’s anything wrong with that).
Todd
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