Just curious why we should be concerned about what the world thinks of the church? The survey should be completed by God to find out what He thinks. That would be shocking, I’m sure!

Antihomosexual- the church is not to support or condone sin. Homosexuality is a sin so we are against it.
Judgmental- if we preach the true Gospel there will be two reactions because of the pricking of the conscience. Either conviction and brokeness or the despising of the message. It is the latter that causes the sinner to point the finger and call us “judgmental” when all along their judgment comes from within.
Hypocritical- the result of the elimination of church discipline.
Old Fashioned- the truths of Scripture have stood for over 4000 yrs and I thank God for His faithfulness.
Too involved/politics- let’s all make a pact that we will make sure that the leaders of this country are amoral by staying away from adhering to a strict code of morality for our elected officials...yeah! that’s a good idea!
Out of touch with reality- This world was created in 6 days, the fall of man was the result of sin, Jesus Christ came to die for our sins so that we could be restored to a right relationship with our Creator, He is coming again to judge the living and the dead.  I am so out of touch!
Insensitive to others- Spending millions on conferences, new megachurches with restaurants and coffee houses which only encourages “Christians” to hibernate inside the 4 walls of the church instead of going out and reaching the lost...I agree, that is insensitive. Shame on us. How many souls could we reach with the money wasted in market-driven church projects?
Boring- with all the light shows and smoke and loud music and nifty tee-shirts...it’s not about being entertained; it’s about worshipping the HOLY ALMIGHTY GOD! They’re bored because their not saved!
Not accepting of other faiths- I WILL NOT SIT WHILE THE LOST ARE LED ASTRAY TO BELIEFS THAT DAMN THEM TO HELL! I do not accept that allah is the only god. I do not accept hinduisms 4 million dieties either. I do not accept the JW’s and mormons denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. I do not accept the heretical teachings of the roman catholic church.
NOR SHOULD WE! We have the truth.
Confusing- When pastors and denominations begin denying the complete inerrancy of Scripture, like the creation account for example, it is easy to see why children can become confused

In conclusion, we are accountable to God alone. If the world hates us we shouldn’t be suprised because that is what He said would happen. We should stand on the truth of Scripture even to the cost of our very lives and should never compromise. Our only concern for the world should be to seek and save the lost. When they surrender to the Savior because of the foolishness of the message preached, they will join us with heartfelt joy in worship and praise to the King, Jesus Christ.

In the early church, we were known for being the people who loved each other so much. Jesus promised that would be how we were known. Now we are known for a list of behavior that we are against and for a political party and agenda.

Christian used to be a word applied to us because we were “little Jesuses”. Now it’s a word we self-apply because of our list of doctrine.

There is indeed much value in knowing how the world sees us, as Jesus tells us how they will see us when we get it right. We are, in many places, not getting it right.

“In the early church, we were known for being the people who loved each other so much. Jesus promised that would be how we were known. Now we are known for a list of behavior that we are against and for a political party and agenda.”

I was thinking about this and something occurred to me: what if we’ve stayed true to the faith, but the world has changed so much that they see us only the way in which the devil would want them to see us?

I was listening to part of a sermon from last week’s Deeper Conference, where there was a speaker talking about the history and influence of Christianity in America in years past.  Traveling back to the 1950s and 1960s, due to the knowledge, education, and focus around Jesus Christ, people knew that sin was sin and treated it accordingly.  For example, people frequenting pornographic theaters and strip clubs wore dark sunglasses and hid in the shadows when entering and leaving.  But now, people boast about what smutty things they watch, almost as a badge of pride, and movies like, “Zack And Miri Make A Porno,” are advertised on evening TV.

With the waning of Christian influence and the true knowledge of what comprises the faith, along with self-centered sermons and bestselling books, is it any wonder that the country now knows us only through a glass darkly?

--
CS

I agree that we shouldn’t be surprised when we face persecution and adversity from outside the church, however as a young 20-something who’s also working in a church, I see some major red flags going up here.  Words like “judgmental”, “hypocritical”, “political”, “confusing”.  I don’t see any reason why our being true to our beliefs should be associating these words with our ministry and our persons.  These are things we as a church need to deal with in order to maintain our relevance in the world we live in.

Also, I think that one of the most interesting aspects of “unChristian” (I’m reading it now) is the polling of current young Christians… a lot of the viewpoints (from people INSIDE the church) match.  That’s something we definitely need address… and I don’t think the answer is always to assume that folks like me are wrong… just my 2 cents.

I find it troubling that when I look in the Bible for religious groups that are judgemental and condemning, I find the pharisees, so when people apply those descriptions to the church, I wonder if the church has fallen into the same traps that Jesus spoke against.  I also find that Jesus did not seem to have that reputation among the people.  They came to hear him in huge crowds because he was different than the religious leaders. 

A quote from Ghandi provides the perfect illustration:
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

There is a story that Ghandi, after reading the Gospels, was very interested in Christianity, but was turned away when he tried to enter a church.

The point of Unchristian is that we often do the same by our poor (judgemental and condemning) witness.  I used to teach at a high school, and I can say that most of my non-believing students had attitudes that line up with the perceptions revealed in Unchristian.  Some of that is surely due to negative media representations, but mostly it was because young Christians at the school ( a fairly high percentage at this particular school) constantly judged, mistreated and belittled them.

CS,

I was at the Deeper Conference this past weekend!!  I agree that Marshall Foster presented history in a way that encouraged me even more to stand on God’s Word and to preach the Gospel because it will change the world. Ken Ham’s position of how Genesis has been compromised was equally eye-opening!

Just tell those stupid kids to shut up. What do they know anyway (and that is typically how the observations of the young are treated in many Evangelical circles)

I find their observations, in general, to be very true.

How to go about “fixing” the Church is a whole different matter. I am not at all sure it can be fixed in its current form. We keep adding patches to the wineskin and they keep breaking.

In my neck of the woods, Churches think the answer is to change their music. Change the music and viola! the young will flock to the Church again. All it has gotten us is some pretty “crappy” music.

Brian - if you want I will send you some CD’s of my messages - you can see just how “offensively” I preach and share the gospel!  Just e-mail me an address!  Well, I’ve gotta go scream at a funeral....

Three responses:

Wendi:

“And CS – One could make a case that the type of sinful behavior you point out (sexual deviancy) isn’t more prevalent today, just more open, making it appear more prevalent.”

I’m not evaluating the quantity of sin present, but the reaction to such sin in light of peoples’ perceptions of Christianity.  If the quantity of sin remains the same, but the acceptance of sinful activities such as adultery, lust, and homosexuality goes up, wouldn’t anyone who says that those actions are wrong be perceived to be more and more intolerant?  Although the protestor has not changed in stance or degree of volume, due to the way everyone else has changed, the message is perceived as being more harsh and condemning.

Dave Z:

““I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

“There is a story that Ghandi, after reading the Gospels, was very interested in Christianity, but was turned away when he tried to enter a church. “

I’ve heard this analogy before, especially in light of the, “unChristian,” book.  I found that his statement is akin to saying, “I like you, but I can’t stand your wife.” We have no record of Ghandi repenting and putting his trust in Christ, which means that he likely admired his own understanding (idol) of Christ, and would likely naturally be turned off by believers in a church.  And even Christians who exercise their faith poorly cannot get in the way of God saving someone from their sins.

Katrina:

I wish I could have gone.  I’m in the western states, and it’s a shame we don’t get more good conferences like they have in the east and in the Bible Belt.  I would have been one of the 500, too.

--
CS

Wendi,

Luke 4 :16-30 is a great example.  Here, Jesus is in His hometown...people there watched Him grow up.  He gets up and tells them things that make them look at Him in awe and were even impressed with all the things He was saying as well as speaking good things about Him.  Then He sat down and Illuminated the truth of the Gospel...He told them they were no better than a gentile widow from the Jezebel’s home town. He told them they were no better than a leperous Syrian terrorist because of there sins.  What was their reaction?  They tried to throw HIm from a cliff.  These “religious” unredeemed sinners thought that they were better than gentiles because of Abraham’s covenant.  They were in the “in” crowd therefore they could look down on others. Jesus told them clearly they were sinners in need of a Savior and just like the rest of the world when we tell the same message, they hated Him and attempted to kill Him.  Paul, Peter, Timothy, John, Matthew, Jude, James, Luke, and all the other disciples eventually suffered the same fate and you will too if you are faithful to preach the Gospel to all creation. (Mark 16:15)

The key now is will you believe it when Scripture tells us that God’s Gospel message is offensive to the lost but is the power of God unto salvation? Though the modern Christian church in America waters that message down to a nonoffensive, feel good about yourself, man-centered message, the true Gospel offends and it is designed to. Either you are for Jesus or you are against Him...the Gospel prevents you from riding the fence.

Katrina said:

The key now is will you believe it when Scripture tells us that God’s Gospel message is offensive to the lost but is the power of God unto salvation? Though the modern Christian church in America waters that message down to a nonoffensive, feel good about yourself, man-centered message, the true Gospel offends and it is designed to. Either you are for Jesus or you are against Him...the Gospel prevents you from riding the fence.

Yes the gospel is offensive but you are confusing the message preached in many Evangelical Churches with “the gospel.” You confuse “the gospel” with the right wing, political, Americanism that is preached as the gospel in many Churches.

Rail against the homosexuals but none of them are sitting in the pew. Rail against the “liberals” and Democrats, and the pacifists, and the violators of Church standards (a law unto themselves) and pretend such preaching is the gospel, but it isn’t.

Maybe it is not that way in your Church but it is in a number of Evangelical Churches (and perhaps those are the Churches that are the focus of the survey)

In the last year I have been told I am not a Christian because I am a liberal, because I support Barack Obama, because I am not a single issue voter, because I don’t believe in word for word inerrancy,because I believe in women preachers.....shall I go on?

If anyone is “confusing” the gospel it is those mentioned above. It is a hateful. mean-spirited gospel that the world see and the world is offended (and rightly so)

As long as people like Tony Perkins and James Dobson (among others) are allowed to speak for Evangelicals and say “this is THE way” the world will want nothing of what we have to offer.

The true gospel begins with us living it out. We are real good at preaching it but we are no so good at living it.

Bruce,
This old country hick doesn’t know what to make of your reply. I don’t know if you agree or disagree with me or are neutral?

Fox News???
Facing the Giants and Fireproof--never heard of them.
Mind meld--religious right???? Is that like the religious are right and the religious left have left religion???

You need to speak/write straightforward for me. I am not good at interpretation.
fishon

Thanks Bruce,

Ah, now I get it. Just slow today.

Nay, a steady diet of those you mentioned won’t do it either. Heck, they would just go too far the other way. I use to be a Hannity fan, but I can’t stand listening to him any more. Not necessarily for what he believes, but he has now become Foxes Keith Oberman.

Spock--I loved him. How could I have missed that???

Bruce, a question to these 2 paragraphs of yours: : : Rail against the homosexuals but none of them are sitting in the pew. Rail against the “liberals” and Democrats, and the pacifists, and the violators of Church standards (a law unto themselves) and pretend such preaching is the gospel, but it isn’t.

Maybe it is not that way in your Church but it is in a number of Evangelical Churches (and perhaps those are the Churches that are the focus of the survey)

-----If my questions come off as--ah, just take them as questions--just having a discussion

Do you really think that is going on on a large scale? If so, is it a guess or do you have facts to back up your thoughts?

I have no facts either way. I am just guessing that we are fed a line that what you say is going on, in most/many pulpits, really isn’t happening on the scale that it is said to be.
fishon