The majority of their statements are Biblical. However, they miss-interpret Gal. 3:28.  If homosexuallity were are race this might apply, but it isn’t and it doesn’t.

#8 concerns me the most.  The Holy Spirit will never reveal a truth that is not supported in some manner by scripture.  There is nothing new under the sun and God is not a liar.  If we can’t varify it by his word, then it’s not from God. 

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, Because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jn. 4:1

I know God loves them, but He loves everyone. I also know that we have to come to Christ on his terms and die to self. I cannot pick on gays, because the Bible tells me that drunkards won’t inherit the kingdom either, but we all know a few drunks that seem to know Christ, they just have an addiction to deal with.

Keep praying and loving others.

Ed.

A couple of problems…

#4—I’m not sure that salvation properly understood is this individualistic.  We are part of a broader faith community and we are called to liv efaithfully as community… and trust that the Holy Spirit revela struth through community over history, etc.  So these are issues that must be dealt with within Christian community, not simply as individuals.

#5—A misuse of this passage (and even the claim).  Paul is arguing that the walls that previously existed have been torn down.  But he does not say that sin is no longer real.  Again, this begs the question (instead of answers it)…

#6—the cited passage does not speak at all to the claim made.  This is a case of simply choosing a nice passage out of context and pretending it means something it doesn’t.  Jesus is talking about the calling of His disciples, which may have implications for all disciples but says nothing about sexual orientation, behavior, sin, or the like…

#7—This begs the question… are the scriptural prohibitions against homosexuality universal or specific?  This, of course, is the foundational hermeneutical question on this issue… but juts claiming that some things are contextual/specific does not mean all things are.

I also agree with the observations others have made.

Interesting stuff…

Ben

We’re all sinners!

If you’re depending upon someone’s homosexuality being less important to God than your greed or lack of charity or whatever, then you are creating a hierarchy of sin. Who gives you the right to say how God will judge others?

Think about Jesus’ origins - a nobody from nowhere—a poor place that was looked down upon by both the government and the religious establishment.

I suspect if Jesus were to come today, he’d be a poor, black homosexual, just to test our charity. And we’d probably kill him again.

It is difficult to reconcile love thy neighbor as you love thyself with condemning (maybe) a lot of the population to Hell. Simplistically stated, the OT relied on the Law while the NT relies on Love. The thing most condemned is oppressing the poor and the marginalized, and God knows we bear national sin for that.

I believe that Homosexuals are born that way, so why would we condemn someone for what is not their fault?

I taught Bible Study with a 50 year old Lesbian (you’d never know by looking at her) and she 1) never chose to be gay and 2) was one of the most devout, charitable and scripture-knowledgeable people I know.

Here’s a link to a sermon series from my church on Difficult Questions Christians Face. It includes homosexuality.

Warning: If you are bothered by liberal Christians and Christianity, don’t go there....

http://www.qqumc.org/templates/chr03wh/details.asp?id=27751&PID=330641&mast;=

Joe said,

“If you’re depending upon someone’s homosexuality being less important to God than your greed or lack of charity or whatever, then you are creating a hierarchy of sin. Who gives you the right to say how God will judge others?”

I don’t think Joe started out right or ended right.  First, homosexuality is not just a sin against God it is a sin against our own bodies, and Roman’s is very clear that we will reap the judgment on our bodies as a result of this sin.  Now, one could argue, that this happens with every sin! I would only ask, when did Coveting your neighbor’s car, as sin, contribute to contracting a STD?  I would also argue the same thing about Adultery; it can affect not only the body but our relationships as well.

God is clear that some sins – are “unto death” in our efforts to reach out to everyone caught in practicing sin we shouldn’t diminish the message.  While we must be careful NOT to act as judge and jury, we should never diminish the full biblical explanation of what sin is and what it does to our lives, bodies, relationships, etc.

Blessings,

Joe, thanks for the link.  I read your pastor’s sermon on homosexuality.  Clearly, by her definitions (which are probably accurate), I am a traditionalist.  I believe her exegesis of the passages cited is pretty far off base. 

I’m intrigued, though, by your comment, “It is difficult to reconcile love thy neighbor as you love thyself with condemning (maybe) a lot of the population to Hell.” It seems to compare apples to trees.  “Love your neighbor” is God’s commandment to me and clearly, in light of all of scripture, means that there should be no difference in my love for my homosexual neighbor than for my heterosexual neighbor.  Why the church as taken such a strong stance against homosexuality and has not been so vocal against heterosexual sin - which is probably more prevalent in the church - escapes me. 

As for “condemning (maybe) a lot of the population to Hell”, that’s not my job.  Sadly, a lot of my fellow believers try to do just that, whether they are condemning homosexuality or lying or drinking or dancing or smoking or ....  Let’s just leave that part to God, folks!

Again, Joe, thanks for your comments here.  May the Holy Spirit lead us both (all) into all truth - whatever that is.

Joe,

I would just remind you that the BTK killer was a deacon in his church and taught Sunday school for years, his neighbors said he was a gentle loving man.  I could argue that he was “born that way” and didn’t choose his “path” for sexual release, but was only living as “God made him.” I would be wrong however according to scripture.  Those in the NAMBLA organization argue the same considerations as you brought forth, “They were born that way loving boys!” How twisted is that logic.  You see my friend this is what happens when we began to cut and paste scripture to justify our sin, instead of turning from it as Jesus said we should.  One should also remember that scriptures teach very clearly that Satan will appear to many as an “angel of light!” This is why we must accept fully what the scripture has to say about our salvation and lifestyle.  Self deception is an easy path to take, when we want to ignore the convictions of the Spirit and run our own lives.

Blessings,

Praise God Larry!

You answered the question better then any theologian every could!

Blessings,
Al

I meant to add this to my last comment:

My frustration lies in the fact that I think we as Christians are talking about homosexuality as if we are some supreme authority over its every aspect when I suspect that we know extremely little, if anything at all, about it other than the fact that it is not what God intended.  This fact alone does not make us experts...nor does it give us ANY right whatsoever to single out and condemn homosexuals.

Also, for those who would like a great resource on just how homosexuals view Scripture (there are three main ways and each has different implications), then I would suggest reading, “Straight and Narrow?” by Thomas E. Schmidt (InterVarsity Press).

It is well done, and is done from a redemptive standpoint - helping people see how their view is wrong and helping them find truth.

Also, the ministry of former homosexual Tim Wilkins at http://www.crossministry.org is another great resource.

Brian

Where do I begin?  #3 bothers me because they assume persecution and take a “higher tone.” #4 notes that we cannot criticize or judge a person’s salvation?  Wrong.  Jesus said something about knowing a person by their fruit...we make judgments all the time.  We set up standards based on the Bible for selection of deacons and pastors.  One of the things a good search committee will do is to ensure that the candidates for those positions are saved.  What do you look for ... the fruit!  #5 - Anytime someone misuses Gal. 3:28 I am saddened. 

It is obvious to me that this church probably has to cut chapter 6 out of 1 Corinthians out of the pew Bibles.  Verse 9-10 list homosexuals among the lists of unrepentant sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God.  The good news for Corinth is found in the words “as were some of you..."(v. 11). 

I don’t buy their argument of context completely.  I’ve heard this line of how “homosexuals” were different in the past.  How?

The real issue is this:  How can any church advocate salvation that does not result in a change of behavior consistent with the Bible? 

I’ve talked to missionaries who ministered in New Guinea among tribes where homosexuality was wholesale.  Men separately from the women and children in long huts.  Ten year old boys were initiated into the men’s hut by a ceremony I won’t state here.  Women were for breeding only. 

Missionaries work among the tribe (I forget the name but it was also on the Discovery channel last year) changed the dynamics to what we call a traditional family - homosexuality is almost gone.  When these men became saved, they took their wives and children and built smaller huts in order to obey God and His Word.

Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.  As Christians we have remained silent far too long on issues affecting all of our faith.  Abortion on demand, prayer in schools, ethical behavior, and yes pornography, have in my opinion become rampant because we remained silent.

A sin is a sin and homosexuality is a sin.  It is however no worse than others sleeping with women who are not your wife, lying is a sin, stealing is a sin.  We as Christian must stand for our beliefs or we will become like to Jews of the Old Testament.

They were told not to intermarry as it would turn them away from their faith. I believe these same principals can be affecting our moral values of what is acceptable behavior.  They did not follow Gods commands and it cost them dearly.  They could not enter the promised land, they were taken prisoners, lost their homes and country to name a few of the consequences.

If we do not make a stand for what the Word of God clearly states how long before we will lose are ability to worship as it is offensive to someone.  This may sound drastic but we cannot pray in school, we cannot talk about God unless we use His name in Vain then it is OK in public places.

We need to love everybody but we must not become like the Jews and forget what God told them or these same consequences could happen to us.  Let not wonder how we got into such a mess after it is to late.

This is not about hate it is about right and wrong.