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perfect church

What’s Missing from the Ideal Church?

Orginally published on Friday, March 11, 2005 at 6:00 AM
by Todd Rhoades

Tod Bolsinger has had a continuing discussion at his blog about the "ideal" church (much along the same lines as the discussion of the "perfect" church we’ve been having here).  I think you’ll find this interesting.  Tod writes:  After a few days of posting and comments about our ideas of the ideal church (and some requisite warnings about even considering such a thing) there were some obvious themes that I will pick up and post on in the days ahead…

A quick synopsis of most of our ideal church is pretty simple: A sincere, humble, accepting people of genuine worship, sound biblical teaching, authentic community, transformed lives, service to others, love for each other.  (Did I miss anything?)

But what was most interesting (but actually not surprising) was what was missing.

No one mentioned any of the following as part of their ideal church:

Food courts, coffee carts, fresh-baked cookies, skateboard ramps, rock-climbing walls, or gymnasiums of any kind.

Powerpoint.

Dazzling preachers, cool worship leaders, star soloists, stirring pipe organs, great choirs, jamming bands, drum sets, electric guitars.

Beautiful buildings, impressive programs, activities for all ages (though someone did mention an annual dance, I believe!)

Websites. Blogs.

These words also never appeared either: User-friendly, seeker-sensitive, purpose-driven, emergent.

So, if our ideals are so ?simple?, why are our churches so complicated?  Are we going the way of the world with all of our plans, buildings, programs and such?  Or really is there more to some of our madness than meets the eye?  Is there a way


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 TRACKBACKS: (0) There are 12 Comments:

  • Posted by
    Friday, March 11, 2005 at 12:39 PM

    I feel churches are conforming to the world rather than the world conforming to christianity. This makes me worry about the future of our church. There seem to be very few absolutes any more and people seem to follow those who are willing to compromise. I am praying that possibly God wants us to find balance in having more love and that we will get back to the Bible but with more compassion than in the past. I hear a lot about legalism now and I am not sure what that means anymore. Are convictions legalism? “Rules with Relationship” work for me. I will stay on the path of seeking His truth from His Word.............not people’s truth!

  • Posted by rev-ed
    Friday, March 11, 2005 at 12:53 PM

    This has been a great exercise for me, both here and at Tod’s blog.  It seems there is a core of things we should be doing and many choices of how we do those things.  Whether it is accomplished via 21st Century means or 18th Century means shouldn’t be our main worry—provided we remain focused on the core and not the periphery.

  • Posted by bernie dehler
    Friday, March 11, 2005 at 2:57 PM

    Shirley says:
    “I feel churches are conforming to the world rather than the world conforming to christianity.”

    Good insight to always be careful about.  One of the biggest differences is our Lord’s teaching “Who wants to be greatest must be servant of all.”

    ...Bernie
    http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247

  • Posted by
    Friday, March 11, 2005 at 4:59 PM

    Oh the things we are forced to deal with.  I think it all comes down to general Christ like love for the community around you, and the desire Christ has put in your heart to see them know their Savior.
    I guess with each thing we must ask ourselves, “Is this what God would have us do?” I long for a day when Christians can come together and truly ask this question and except the answer.  When we would put aside what we want, and do the work that Christ has called us to...to reach the lost, teach them about this Savior and well as the life He has called us to. We need to love all over them with Christ like love and minister to their needs. Finally equip them to do the same for someone else.
    Someday maybe we will get over what we think Church should be and become the Church God has designed us to be.
    With All Respect

  • Posted by
    Saturday, March 12, 2005 at 2:50 AM

    I agree with all the characteristics of the ideal church as well as utilizing some of the others as means to our end.  After all, God used some strange means to accomplish his purposes ie floating axe heads, frogs in the bedcovers, pigs running over a cliff, and money in a fishes mouth to name just a few…
    However, I have a huge problem finding a church that welcomes sinners--I mean real sinners--not sinners like me.  You know, my sins are ok.  I am welcome where ever I go.  Just a little selfishness, a tad too much pride, a smidgen of greed--ah, I can’t live in a dump, can I?
    But I bring children in tennis shoes and mismatched clothes--jeans at that. The littlest ones can’t wait for a bathroom break and clatter down the aisle enjoying the echooy sound.  Dad has alcohol on his breath and tatoos someone is sure are prison tatoos.  Mom sneaks out to smoke on
    the front step, hoping no one is watching.  Meanwhile the church women clutch their purses tightly and the deacon wonders how long it will take him to wash the grimy fingerprints off the pews.

    Salvation Army, Set Free, Victory Outreach, and others minister to a fellowship almost exclusively of these “lower sinners”.  And I praise God for this

    BUT why must we have a spiritual caste system of forgiven “lower sinners” who must worship by themselves (in the outer court?) while the “higher sinners” (forgiven and not) praise God for His blessings in the cedar-ceiled sanctuary.

    I long for a church that realizes the blessing of fellowshipping with those who “have been forgiven most” and therefore have much to teach us about LOVING MOST…

  • Posted by
    Sunday, March 13, 2005 at 4:57 PM

    It seems to me that churches have been trying for years to discover what makes the ideal church. 

    When I was a little girl, my family was very involved in a little Baptist church in Tucson.  We all worshiped together (no children’s church), learned about Jesus in Sunday School, enjoyed all church potlucks, sang “Just As I Am”, took offering, served and cared for each other.  Young and old alike hung out together.  We had very few planned programs other than Sunday worship, Sunday School, Vacation Bible School and Wednesday prayer meeting.  Then the leaders decided we weren’t the ideal church because our pastor wasn’t ordained.  So the leaders voted him out and an ordained pastor in.  Nothing really changed except that many of us families who had grown to love and care for this humble pastor and his family, left that little church.

    When I began in full time ministry about twelve years ago, I discovered that churches were still seeking to become the ideal church.  The idea had begun to emerge that all we needed were better leadership skills!  There were conferences, workshops, books, training, and experts all designed to make us leaders who could then create that ideal church.

    We seemed to move next to the seeker-sensitive concept.  So many churches embraced this by adding contemporary music, style of worship, pastors dressing more casually, praise bands, preaching that wasn’t too ‘heavy’ and many of us looked up to the churches who were successful in these areas.  We had long discussions about contemporary vs. traditional worship, never really coming to any resolutions. 

    The next idea was the small group concept.  Once again came books, training, curriculum, conference and experts telling us how to lead small groups.  Churches began to cut out many of the extra programs they were doing and focused on small groups.

    I’m not sure what the newest ‘trend’ is.  Perhaps it’s the continued idea of developing specialized ministry programs for Boomers, Gen-X’ers, children, families, etc.

    I do know that today many on church staff spend so much time planning and running programs, handling administrative details and attending meetings, that we often don’t have time to really care for people; time to do that for which we were called into ministry.  And, when we find the time, our energies are spent. 

    We have tried many approaches.  Yet somehow we are still searching for the ideal church, aren’t we?  That Christ-centered church that we summarize as “A sincere, humble, accepting people of genuine worship, sound biblical teaching, authentic community, transformed lives, service to others, love for each other.”

  • Posted by Pastor Elisabete Teixeira
    Monday, March 14, 2005 at 12:35 PM

    I strongly believe that the ideal church is a place where each and every individual is absolutely, entirely, thorouglhy and completely passionate about, first of all, JESUS, immersed in a loving relationship with Him. Second, passionate about PEOPLE. If a christian is people-phobic, he or she needs care - I don’t mean to be critical here, for he or she is to be loved too. Passion is a word that has long been dismissed as a less reliable “feeling” upon which to build relationships or lead our decisions. To me, it’s no even a “feeling” at all, but a whole dimension of life and a state of mind and spirit. It’s really unfair what has been done to this wonderful concept, because I can’t think of a better word to describe what one could see so clearly in Jesus’ eyes...Nothing but a burning passion...Love in flames...When the passion dies, revival dies. All we have left are rituals, obligations, chores - religion. It’s solely the work of the Holy Spirit, but it’s up to us to seek, hunger for it. May the power of the Holy Spirit revive your capacity to love so intensely, and resurrect the dead christian burried within all those who identify with this description. God bless you powerfully!

  • Posted by Franklin Reeves
    Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 12:09 PM

    A good friend of mine and Pastor recently planted a church. I met with him and others as they explained the vision, and the framework of the Church. He and his support team had visited other “successful” churches around the country to determine the best model for the one they are planting.

    We got on the subject of Sunday School, becasue he felt that it was best not to have it in his church. I told him that SS is imporant part of the personal growth and fellowship. He said that. “I was just used to that model.” I had to remind him until 2-3 years ago I had never been part of a sunday school class, and barely a part of any church. The sunday School class, he taught, was instrumental along with our home groups to bonding me to the church, not to mentionmy spiritual growth. He has reconsidered completely eliminating SS classes.

    I am not against playing Hymns, nor contemporary. Although I spend most of the time in Hymns trying to follow along, with no time to actually put my heart into it.

    I am not against using activites to reach people or draw them in.

    Does church growth prove God approves the methods?

    Could a church be growing simply because people feel comfortable and are having fun?

    Does loss of membership or stagnation prove that a Church is staying pure to the scriptures and preaching the whole counsel of God?

    Should the purpose of a chruch be to grow?

    If I was to look at your church, it activites, and preaching would I say that your primiary purpose is to grow membership roles and therefore tithes so the Pastor can have a bigger salary or a better resume?

  • Posted by
    Tuesday, March 15, 2005 at 7:09 PM

    I have to say that I was touched by the comments pertaining to the question “What’s missing from the ideal church?” I cannot help but sense the deep spiritual hunger that many have exhibited through their comments. “What’s missing from the ideal church?” This question seems so complex but it is not. What is missing from the ideal church is the presence of God. Congregations today expect to enter into the presence of God without any prior preparation on their part. They take their relationship with God so flippantly that they mistake an emotional high as the presence of God.

    The majority of Christians do not prepare themselves to meet God or their families before leaving home to attend church. Moreover, if the truth were known the thought of preparing ourselves to meet God before leaving home never enters our mind and most of the Christians today have not been taught to do so. 

    The bible is full of scripture that expounds the need for the people of God to prepare themselves for the manifest presence of God. Please take time to look up these few texts Joshua chapter 3: 5 and chapter 7 :13, 1Samuel 16:5, 1 Chronicles 15:12 and 2 Chronicles 29:5.

    It was a serious event with much thought and preparation given by the people of God to get ready to enter the presence of God. Yet today church is not about meeting God and calling on him in prayer. It is more of going to hear a sermon and sing a few emotional songs to make us feel good for the moment then to meeting God and being changed and transformed into the likeness of Christ. 

    Occultic symbols and all sorts of pagan practices have crept into the church and many false pastors rely on demonic manifestations by religious spirits to manipulate their congregations. Then claim that the manifestations are from the Holy Spirit and the congregations believe them because they have not prepared themselves before God to discern this spiritual wickedness that robs them of true fellowship with our heavenly Father.  This practice is rampant and we all know it.

    The reason this is happening at such an alarming rate is that we Christians are lukewarm and are not willing to die unto ourselves and are unwilling to sacrifice anything to God that cost us something dear to us. A far cry from what King David said in 2 Samuel 24:24 24Then the king said to Araunah, “No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing.” So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. 25And David built there an altar to the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD heeded the prayers for the land, and the plague was withdrawn from Israel.

    Today there is a plague in the midst of many of the churches of God and the biggest symptoms is the lack of the manifest presence of God and a willingness by God’s people to seek Him at sacrificial cost to themselves.  As a result, our churches have a form of godliness, but no power to change lives.  What’s missing from the ideal church?  Just God!

    2 timothy 3: 1
    1But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power.

    The good news is that many of us are fed up with the status quo are searching for something more and I believe that God is drawing us once again to hunger for his true presence and many who are seeking God with all their hearts are finding Him. These are they who in this last moment before the clock strikes midnight will be endowed with an anointing of the Spirit of God that will drive the hordes of hell back and many souls will be saved because the sinners and the lost will finally see men and women who have spent time with Jesus.  Exciting times are ahead my brothers! God bless you all.

  • Posted by cowboy pastor
    Thursday, March 17, 2005 at 9:16 PM

    Jade, Visit our church. Sinners and church folks mix well in a cowboy church. Like a small town, where the millionaire lives next to the riff raff, we welcome all. We even have people smoke in church on occasion :-0 (not that I approve, but no one condemns).
    Cowboy Church (Narrow Trail works with the Southern Baptists/BGCT) is church made simple.  Most planter training focuses on powerpoint and contemporary music. Cowboy church focuses on preaching the good old gospel. I know, it is crazy, but preaching the Word “works”.
    I love the line: “ideal church is pretty simple: A sincere, humble, accepting people of genuine worship, sound biblical teaching, authentic community, transformed lives, service to others, love for each other.” Clear away the barriers (safety nets) of all that other stuff, and sinners can see the gospel.

    People want authenticity. Be yourself, be real.

    Admittedly, music is the Cowboy Church’s draw. Our service is not a “production”, though we have singers with followings most weeks.

    Google “narrow trail cowboy church”
    God had the Dallas Morning News write an article about our church (when it was only two months old!). That article has been printed in papers around the nation. I think God wants people to think and step outside the box. As a prof at seminary said “We keep making churches for the churched.”

    God bless y’all!

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